Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

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Esmund
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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#161 Postby Esmund » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:38 am

I hope I'm not necroing this thread TOO badly....

I'm GMing a savage worlds version of Rise of the Runelords for a group made entirely of RPG noobs (including myself). We're using Savage Armoury for the gear, and for the simplified encumbrance. We're just about to finish up the first chapter, and I want to start creating weapons and armour to add to what is already in the book. So I was starting to create some bows, and I had a question about the crossbow:

These are the relevant abilities:
Ammo - Weapon is missile based, double base range
Long-Range - base range is 5/10/20
Two-Handed - base range x3

So with those 3 abilities, I would think that the range would be (5/10/20) x 2 x 3 = 30/60/120
But the crossbow is listed as having range 15/30/60. Is it the case where only the greater of the x2 and x3 range bonuses apply?

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Zadmar
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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#162 Postby Zadmar » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:07 pm

Koshnek wrote:I was thinking about creating an intelligent relic with both SA and the FC. Do you have any suggestions?

Going to reanswer this one, because now I have a better suggestion: Eldritch Weapons

Esmund wrote:These are the relevant abilities:
Ammo - Weapon is missile based, double base range
Long-Range - base range is 5/10/20
Two-Handed - base range x3

So with those 3 abilities, I would think that the range would be (5/10/20) x 2 x 3 = 30/60/120
But the crossbow is listed as having range 15/30/60. Is it the case where only the greater of the x2 and x3 range bonuses apply?

Yes, they don't stack. Range (x3) is an upgrade to Ammo (x2). Note that Ammo turns the weapon into a missile weapon, and Range is missile-only, so you can't take the latter without the former. Also note that both abilities apply their multiplier to the base range, not the total range.

Ammo: This is now a missile weapon. Double the base range (ranged only).
Range: Triple the base range, or quadruple if the weapon also has Accuracy (missile only).

It could probably be made clearer though. When I redo Savage Armoury I'll try and tighten up the wording.
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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#163 Postby JamesG » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:23 pm

Hi Zadmar,

First, let me repeat how much I appreciate your work on this. I'm using it to redo the 50 Fathoms weapons.

But I think there is a mistake/typo, both in the PDF and your answer just above.

For Ammo it says "This is now a missile weapon. Double the base range (ranged only)". I think this is supposed to say "double the base damage". So it turns a d6 weapon into a 2d6 weapon. It does not impact range at all, though as noted the weapon must be ranged to take the ability. Your detailed builds of the Short bow and Crossbow on page 13 bears this interpretation out.

But I'm not sure what +4 "Accuracy : The base range of the weapon is tripled instead of doubled (missile only)" is supposed to do.

I think it is supposed to just say "Triple the base range of the weapon (missile only)". Since tripling the base range of a weapon is a two handed ability, and you say on page 10 that two handed abilities should be 4 point abilities.

Your thoughts?

Thanks.

{Edit - actually rereading your answer and thinking about those builds on page 13 has me rethinking this. I almost deleted the post but decided to leave it up for your thoughts]

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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#164 Postby JamesG » Tue Apr 18, 2017 4:56 pm

OK, I think I finally figured it out.

  • To make a missile weapon you first take Short Range, Medium Range, or Long Range. This sets the base range.
  • Then you take Ammo which doubles base range. It also changes the damage type to 2d6 (and damage can be modified by other missile only abilities)
  • Then optionally you can take Accuracy which triples the base range, but this triple is instead of the double from Ammo.
  • Then optionally you can take the 2 handed ability Range. This replaces the x2 Range from Ammo with x3 Range, OR it replaces the x3 Range from Accuracy with x4 Range

If the above is correct just disregard my prior post. I'm a little slow today, apparently.

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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#165 Postby Zadmar » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:04 pm

JamesG wrote:OK, I think I finally figured it out.

  • To make a missile weapon you first take Short Range, Medium Range, or Long Range. This sets the base range.
  • Then you take Ammo which doubles base range. It also changes the damage type to 2d6 (and damage can be modified by other missile only abilities)
  • Then optionally you can take Accuracy which triples the base range, but this triple is instead of the double from Ammo.
  • Then optionally you can take the 2 handed ability Range. This replaces the x2 Range from Ammo with x3 Range, OR it replaces the x3 Range from Accuracy with x4 Range

Exactly :)
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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#166 Postby JamesG » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:49 pm

Hi again Zadmar,

Got a quick question about the +2 ability "double-barrel".

In the core rules, the only weapons with a double barrel are shotguns, and the notes for shotguns say if both barrels are fired at the same time the recoil penalty as described for automatic weapons should be applied. Which I've always found a little odd since normally Automatic Fire is not invoked until RoF is 3 or more.

Anyway, my question is, do you impose a -2 recoil penalty for weapons with the "double-barrel" ability if they fire both barrels at once (as in fire at RoF 2)?

I'm thinking you do not and are disregarding the note in core regarding shotguns for weapons designed in your system. But I figured I should make sure.

Thanks.

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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#167 Postby Zadmar » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:48 pm

The "Rate of Fire" entry in the SWD Gear chapter states that "If a single shot is taken,it uses a single round of ammunition and does not incur any recoil penalties. Two or more shots with such weapons always incurs the –2 autofire penalty."

Savage Armoury doesn't change the Rate of Fire rule, so Double-Barrel would indeed incur a -2 autofire penalty when you fire both barrels at once.
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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#168 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:13 pm

A ROF greater than 1 is automatic, with the associated penalties. So, RoF 2 (such as firing both barrels of a shotgun) is automatic.
Not sure why you'd think autofire is only an issue at RoF 3+.
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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#169 Postby JamesG » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:26 pm

Thanks for the fast reply Zadmar. I had forgotten that note for the gear table itself.

This does make me feel better about using "double barrel" for Jumani Chain, even though that ability is normally "gunpowder only". Mechanically they are similar in granting a second attack but incurring a -2 on both attacks. Jumani Chain has an advantage in that the second attack gets a wild die. But I think I'll probably just live with that instead of charging more for it.

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Re: Savage Armoury: Weapon creation system

#170 Postby JamesG » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:37 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:A ROF greater than 1 is automatic, with the associated penalties. So, RoF 2 (such as firing both barrels of a shotgun) is automatic.
Not sure why you'd think autofire is only an issue at RoF 3+.


I have the first printing of the SWD Hardcover and in that the first sentence under Automatic Fire in the Situational Combat Rules section says:
Automatic weapons (those with an RoF of 3 or higher) fire much faster—and inherently differently—than regular firearms.


But I see now that has been corrected in the Errata and in more recent printings to say RoF of 2 or higher.

So definitely my mistake not to double check the errata but you can see where I got the idea.


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