Custom Setting Rules

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ValhallaGH
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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#61 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:07 am

You can't heal the dead. (Yeah, this has come up a lot over the years.)
http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=204498#p204498
http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=252554#p252554
http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=281951#p281951
http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=308359#p308359
http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=340223#p340223
http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=375976#p375976
http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=420050#p420050

Some of the Weird Wars books have an edge (Medic) to bypass the Aftermath roll with a Healing check (needs to be immediate). One of those threads has a couple of proposed edges for medics to give bonuses on Aftermath rolls.

Also, "The hostage got shot! Save her!" sounds like a perfect hook for a Dramatic Task.

P.S. Thanks for the edit!
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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#62 Postby Deskepticon » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:18 pm

Thanks for those links. I realized I've been playing it somewhat wrong...
When an extra goes down and a player says, "I'm gonna save him," I should be rolling Vigor first to see if they are even worth saving.

:o Wow! That means the Dependant hindrance is more brutal than I thought.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#63 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:36 pm

Deskepticon wrote:When an extra goes down and a player says, "I'm gonna save him," I should be rolling Vigor first to see if they are even worth saving.

Or you could to a Dramatic Task, if you want to give them a real chance at saving the character.
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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#64 Postby Deskepticon » Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:50 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Or you could to a Dramatic Task, if you want to give them a real chance at saving the character.

I'm not sure how many of my players would be willing to dedicate 5 rounds during combat to help an extra... most (if not every) time it was done with magic.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#65 Postby SeeleyOne » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:29 pm

In some earlier posts in this thread people were discussing "roleplay" and "mechanical" hindrances. It seems to be that the "roleplay" hindrances are easier to get a benny. What I have found to work is that if the character failed, or was otherwise notably inconvenienced because of a mechanical hindrance, I believe that they should get a benny. Say that you have a -2 to a given roll, and you miss by one or two, you get a benny. But again, it has to matter to the situation, just alike all Hindrances.
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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#66 Postby Deskepticon » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:09 am

SeeleyOne wrote:In some earlier posts in this thread people were discussing "roleplay" and "mechanical" hindrances. It seems to be that the "roleplay" hindrances are easier to get a benny. What I have found to work is that if the character failed, or was otherwise notably inconvenienced because of a mechanical hindrance, I believe that they should get a benny. Say that you have a -2 to a given roll, and you miss by one or two, you get a benny. But again, it has to matter to the situation, just alike all Hindrances.


I tend to go the other way.
If a player fails a roll, it was likely due to the Hindrance. Sad day for you. But if they succeeded, they've overcome their Hindrance and get a Benny.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#67 Postby Freemage » Mon Nov 28, 2016 12:23 am

Psst... Guys.... Remember when we made a whole new thread to keep this one from being further derailed? :wink:

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#68 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:58 am

SeeleyOne wrote:What I have found to work is that if the character failed, or was otherwise notably inconvenienced because of a mechanical hindrance, I believe that they should get a benny. Say that you have a -2 to a given roll, and you miss by one or two, you get a benny. But again, it has to matter to the situation, just alike all Hindrances.

Interesting setting rule.

"Crushed by the Past
When a Hindrance imposes a penalty that causes meaningful failure (or failure of a meaningful roll), such as the One Eye penalty to ranged attacks causing the gunslinger to miss his shot against his greatest Enemy as that foe flees into a cloud of smoke, the character gets a benny.
Purpose: Ensure bennies get handed out for Hindrances with mechanical drawbacks, as frequently as for role playing drawbacks.
Notes: The Hindrance needs to be important to the situation, and the situation needs to be important. It's been very successful at my [SeeleyOne] tables."


Now, how about some new setting rules?
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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#69 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:14 am

Something I created for my Savage Fallout conversion (WIP).

Lucky Shot
When an attack hits with two or more raises, it automatically hits the least armored location, granting all the benefits of a Called Shot in addition to the benefits of a Raise. Example: Johnny is being attacked by a badass raider in full combat armor (+6, arms, legs, torso, head), so Johnny fires his trusty .357 revolver. Johnny Aces a couple of times and gets a spectacular 13, two Raises. Combat armor helmets have good head coverage and a partial visor, but leave the lower jaw and upper neck partially exposed, so the GM rules that Johnny got lucky and shot the raider in the neck; Johnny rolls 2d6+1 damage for the pistol, +1d6 damage for the Raise, and a sturdy +4 damage for the neck shot - some raider is about to have a very bad day.
Purpose: The source material (video games) has always had interesting critical hits that are incredibly dangerous. This rule is intended to translate some of that.
Notes: It makes Power Armor even more desirable, since sealed armor has no locations that aren't covered. It's also incredibly dangerous for the heroes, since this goes both ways.

Edit: Those are good suggestions. Expect revision soon.
Last edited by ValhallaGH on Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#70 Postby Zadmar » Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:02 am

ValhallaGH wrote:Something I created for my Savage Fallout conversion (WIP).

Lucky Shot
When an attack hits with two or more raises, it automatically hits the least armored location, granting all the benefits of a Called Shot in addition to the benefits of a Raise. Example: Johnny is being attacked by a badass raider in full combat armor (+6, arms, legs, torso, head), so Johnny fires his trusty .357 revolver. Johnny Aces a couple of times and gets a spectacular 13, two Raises. Combat armor helmets have good head coverage and a partial visor, but leave the lower jaw and upper neck partially exposed, so the GM rules that Johnny got lucky and shot the raider in the neck; Johnny rolls 2d6+1 damage for the pistol, +1d6 damage for the Raise, and a sturdy +4 damage for the neck shot - some raider is about to have a very bad day.
Purpose: The source material (video games) has always had interesting critical hits that are incredibly dangerous. This rule is intended to translate some of that.
Notes: It makes Power Armor even more desirable, since sealed armor has no locations that aren't covered. It's also incredibly dangerous for the hero's, since this goes both ways.

Rather than automatically hitting the least armored location, you could perhaps allow the attacker to choose a location (you could even say "limb" on 2 raises, "head" requires 3+ raises). That way you'll avoid players deliberately wearing slightly inferior armor on their legs to draw away headshots.

I use a similar house rule called Slice and Dice, except it uses a Chessex Hit Location d12.
My blog: Savage Stuff. I've also written some free tools and supplements.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#71 Postby Alrik_vas » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:38 pm

Couple of GM-centric nasty tricks here.

Disclaimer: This first one is a joke, but feel free to use it.

The villain enters the chamber, he stands dramatically and taunts the PC's from behind his minions. The PC with the biggest gun and highest shooting interrupts the GM and declares his intention to shoot the guy in the head while monologue-in-effect remains. Perfect hit with total overkill.

"As I was saying..." [SR Setting Rule]
When the above situation, or something like it occurs, the PC in question must draw for initiative against the villain and all other enemies, who may contest them. The GM may spend a Benny to switch cards with the PC if they so choose, applying it to any enemy drawing a card for initiative. Only the highest initiative may take an action, all other actions do not happen, and the scene plays out until the GM asks for initiative from all combatants. Any action taken in this manner gains +2 to all rolls as if it were a Joker.

This next one is not such a joke.

Joke's on You [SR]
If the GM pulls a Joker when drawing initiative for a villain (specific, not a group), all PC's lose a Benny and the GM gains one. If a player had no Benny to lose they take a -2 on all rolls for the round.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#72 Postby SeeleyOne » Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:54 pm

I like those, thanks for sharing. I could see "Joke's on You" being a fun Wild Card edge.
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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#73 Postby Deskepticon » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:51 pm

For Sci-fi type games:
Energy Shields
In addition to Armor, characters have an extra layer of protection in the form of Energy Shields. Shields must be “shattered” before the target can be damaged. Each point of a Shield acts as Wound level, with each Wound inflicted lowering the Shield by 1 point. If the Shield is lowered to zero it is depleted, exposing the target.
It requires 3 rounds of rest (i.e., not being shot at) for a Shield to recharge. This applies to partially dropped Shields as well as fully depleted ones.

Purpose: It makes combat slightly less dangerous against high damage attacks, improving survivability. Against foes it encourages gang-up tactics. Average Shield strength should probably be around 2 or 3.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#74 Postby Freemage » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:25 pm

Deskepticon wrote:For Sci-fi type games:
Energy Shields
In addition to Armor, characters have an extra layer of protection in the form of Energy Shields. Shields must be “shattered” before the target can be damaged. Each point of a Shield acts as Wound level, with each Wound inflicted lowering the Shield by 1 point. If the Shield is lowered to zero it is depleted, exposing the target.
It requires 3 rounds of rest (i.e., not being shot at) for a Shield to recharge. This applies to partially dropped Shields as well as fully depleted ones.

Purpose: It makes combat slightly less dangerous against high damage attacks, improving survivability. Against foes it encourages gang-up tactics. Average Shield strength should probably be around 2 or 3.


Interesting notion; some questions on implementation:

1: Is the shield tracked separately, or is considered a bunch of extra wounds on the character?

2A: If separate, how do you determine the base Toughness to calculate damage?
2B: If separate, does damage from the shot that takes down the shield also spill past to the character? If the Toughness of the Shield is independent of the character, does the character's Toughness apply to any spillover?

3: If the wounds are contiguous (essentially, adding some "0 penalty" slots to the wearer's Wound track), does that mean the character still gets to Soak wounds to the shield? (Again, the tougher character ends up with an even greater difference in shield effectiveness this way.)

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#75 Postby Deskepticon » Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:42 pm

Freemage wrote:Interesting notion; some questions on implementation:

1: Is the shield tracked separately, or is considered a bunch of extra wounds on the character?


Separate.
So a Shield with 2 points would take 2 "wounds" and collapse. The character is then susceptible to damage normally. As long as the character is getting hit (but not necessarily taking damage) the Shield will not regenerate.

It's modeled after the system used in Mass Effect.

2A: If separate, how do you determine the base Toughness to calculate damage?


Basic Success (TN4) equals 1 wound, 4 per Raise as usual. So a Shield rating 2 would collapse with 8+ damage.
It's designed to be a little cushion, not a "bring it on" device. :)

2B: If separate, does damage from the shot that takes down the shield also spill past to the character? If the Toughness of the Shield is independent of the character, does the character's Toughness apply to any spillover?


Probably best to leave that to the GM.
But I would say Yes to both questions. Keeping with the above example, if a Shield 2 took 15 damage, it would collapse and 7 damage would apply directly to the character's Toughness (including any Armor they have on).

3: If the wounds are contiguous (essentially, adding some "0 penalty" slots to the wearer's Wound track), does that mean the character still gets to Soak wounds to the shield? (Again, the tougher character ends up with an even greater difference in shield effectiveness this way.)

That's not the design I had in mind. Basically, an active Shield makes the character invulnerable. Shields are relatively weak, and once depleted combat proceeds as normal.
Characters under fire must take cover for a full 3 rounds before Shields "suddenly" regenerate.

Hope that all makes sense. :lol:

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#76 Postby Ndreare » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:12 pm

This method seams like it would really drag out combat as everyone with a shield effectivity gets so many wounds.

Is that deliberate?

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#77 Postby SteelDraco » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:10 pm

Ndreare wrote:This method seams like it would really drag out combat as everyone with a shield effectivity gets so many wounds.

Is that deliberate?

I doubt it would change too much. He said that the shields are effectively Toughness 0, since 4 points of damage = 1 Wound and 8 points = 2 Wounds against the shield. That's with SFC weapons, which tend to be pretty damaging - a standard laser pistol will usually shoot for 3d6 damage, a laser rifle for 4d6, and a plasma pistol is 2d10+2. Against damage like that, those shields are effectively just a warning system for "Hey, someone just shot you." You'd lose your shields on the first attack, and that gives you time to get to cover or reevaluate your life choices.

It works well for simulating something like the regenerating ablative shields from something like Halo, Mass Effect, or Borderlands, where you usually don't die to the first shot, and have time to get into cover. If you hide for a bit, you'll get your shields back and be able to take one hit before you have to hide again.

I'd probably fiddle with it and emulate Mass Effect a bit more closely, with different shields having different Toughness and refractory rates. That'd let you get a shield that, say, doesn't protect as much but regenerates quickly, or has a ton of Toughness but if it goes down it's down forever. It can get away from FFF pretty quickly, though, so I didn't go too far with the thought.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#78 Postby Deskepticon » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:11 pm

Ndreare wrote:This method seams like it would really drag out combat as everyone with a shield effectivity gets so many wounds.

Is that deliberate?


It wasn't deliberate to drag out combat. That happens to be incidental to emulating the scifi trope of personal body shields.

The shields aren't really equivocal* to player Wound levels, however, since damage does not need to beat their Toughness to destoy it. I'm thinking 4 would be the highest Shield rating, which would get knocked down completely with a roll of 16.

edit: changed "are" to "aren't" so this makes more sense...
* equivalent :drinking:
Last edited by Deskepticon on Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#79 Postby Deskepticon » Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:19 pm

SteelDraco wrote: Against damage like that, those shields are effectively just a warning system for "Hey, someone just shot you." You'd lose your shields on the first attack, and that gives you time to get to cover or reevaluate your life choices.


:D Precisely.
I haven't done any actual playtesting, but on the surface it seemed Shields would take 1-2 hit max before shattering. The idea was to fill a trope without unbalancing the system too much. If anything, throw in an extra thug or two per player to bring the difficulty nack to center.

I'd probably fiddle with it and emulate Mass Effect a bit more closely, with different shields having different Toughness and refractory rates. That'd let you get a shield that, say, doesn't protect as much but regenerates quickly, or has a ton of Toughness but if it goes down it's down forever. It can get away from FFF pretty quickly, though, so I didn't go too far with the thought.


I've got some Edges in the works that would allow you to boost or regenerate shields as an action, without waiting out the 3 rounds.

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Re: Custom Setting Rules

#80 Postby Freemage » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:12 pm

The initial toughness of the shields wouldn't necessarily slow down combat beyond preventing one-hit kills in most case. However, it also shifts the tactics of combat--usually, you want everyone acting in concert, however, there's now a distinct strategy advantage in some cases to 'cycling' your side in a firefight--one guy pops up to shoot, stays there until his shield drops, then someone else swaps in, in order to let the downed shield regenerate. (This assumes opposing sides with equal cover available, doing the shoot-out approach.) It won't slow down every combat, of course, but I do think some could see a significant extension as the players adapt.

A longer refresh period might prevent this, though it might also make them effectively not worth it (or at least, they should cost less to acquire).


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