Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

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ZenFox42
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Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#1 Postby ZenFox42 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:24 am

So, over the years of reading this forum, I've sussed out the best Fighting Edges, best Ranged Edges, and best Throwing Edges.

But now I'm creating an AB/Miracles PC, who I'm going to stress on the casting aspect, not the combat aspect (he'll have a staff for Reach attacks, but only a d6 in Fighting (and that's mostly for the 5 Parry)).

The setting is Dark Souls, so I'm not too sure how the Holy Warrior Edge would work (if at all) - I'm waiting to hear back from the GM on that.

So, as the Subject says, what Edges would be good for a Novice non-fighting "cleric"? My short list is :
Elan, Hard to Kill, and...that's about it!
Except of course, New Power and Power Points (since he's AB).

So, what Edges do you think would be useful for this kind of character? I guess it could also be worded, what non-Fighting Edges do you think are good for *any* kind of non-specialized character?

Thanks!
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#2 Postby dentris » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:51 am

Brave
Scholar
Danger Sense (with Alertness)
That WC Edge I never remember the name that gives 2d6 PP whenever you draw a Joker
Improved Level-Headed/Quick (to combo with the above Edge)
Common Bond (With Luck/Great Luck)
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#3 Postby SavageGamerGirl » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:07 am

I'll also say that even characters with the Major Pacifist Hindrance can benefit from a good Fighting score. That boosts Parry, and even if you never make a single attack roll there's nothing about pacifism that says you can't defend yourself.

Otherwise, if you're still not interested in boosting your Fighting skill, get the Deflect power. You can cast it on yourself or others, and it's a good defensive power for any spellcaster.
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#4 Postby Zadmar » Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:11 am

How about Acrobat? It gives you another +1 Parry, and the +2 bonus to Agility checks would allow you to support your allies in combat by reducing the enemy's Parry.

If you're going for Elan then you'd also qualify for Healer and Common Bond, both of which are really useful support Edges.

Another option would be Leadership Edges, assuming you're either the leader of the party, or can convince the GM to let you apply an appropriate trapping (like "motivational preacher") so that the rest of the party receives the benefits.
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#5 Postby SavageGamerGirl » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:24 am

Another good Edge is Strong-Willed. That gives you a bonus to Taunt and Intimidate, which can be great for a support character. If you roll well enough, you can get an enemy Shaken, and therefore easier for the fighter types to hurt. A big giant brute like an ogre might have a high Toughness, but that hardly matters if it has a low Smarts die and you can Taunt it. If you manage to Shake it, then your fighter types only have to get a Shaken result to get a Wound. (This falls apart, though, if the enemy has the Hardy ability, which means it can't be Shaken into a Wound). For most enemies, though, it's a great tactic for support characters.

You can use Trappings to describe your Taunt and Intimidate skills as prayers and condemnations against the enemies of your god.
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#6 Postby Freemage » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:49 am

SavageGamerGirl wrote:Another good Edge is Strong-Willed. That gives you a bonus to Taunt and Intimidate, which can be great for a support character. If you roll well enough, you can get an enemy Shaken, and therefore easier for the fighter types to hurt. A big giant brute like an ogre might have a high Toughness, but that hardly matters if it has a low Smarts die and you can Taunt it. If you manage to Shake it, then your fighter types only have to get a Shaken result to get a Wound. (This falls apart, though, if the enemy has the Hardy ability, which means it can't be Shaken into a Wound). For most enemies, though, it's a great tactic for support characters.

You can use Trappings to describe your Taunt and Intimidate skills as prayers and condemnations against the enemies of your god.


I'm going to second this, and note that Intimidate is tied to Spirit, which is something your character probably has a decent score in, anyway, so the skill progression is made a bit lighter.

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#7 Postby Jounichi » Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:53 am

There are more monasteries that brew beer and wine than I care to count. Liquid Courage wouldn't be bad. Having a high Spirit for Miracles also gives you a leg up on Brave, Charismatic, and Persuasion for playing the party face. I'm honestly not familiar with Dark Souls, so I don't know how often towns come into play.
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#8 Postby SavageGamerGirl » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:19 pm

Freemage wrote:
SavageGamerGirl wrote:Another good Edge is Strong-Willed. That gives you a bonus to Taunt and Intimidate, which can be great for a support character. If you roll well enough, you can get an enemy Shaken, and therefore easier for the fighter types to hurt. A big giant brute like an ogre might have a high Toughness, but that hardly matters if it has a low Smarts die and you can Taunt it. If you manage to Shake it, then your fighter types only have to get a Shaken result to get a Wound. (This falls apart, though, if the enemy has the Hardy ability, which means it can't be Shaken into a Wound). For most enemies, though, it's a great tactic for support characters.

You can use Trappings to describe your Taunt and Intimidate skills as prayers and condemnations against the enemies of your god.


I'm going to second this, and note that Intimidate is tied to Spirit, which is something your character probably has a decent score in, anyway, so the skill progression is made a bit lighter.


General note to GMs... this is also a good tactic for enemies to use. Got a min-maxer who slighted his brute warrior's Smarts and Spirit? Have some enemies use Taunt and Intimidate on them. Their buddies will have a better time hurting them.

If you use Tricks and Test of Will correctly, there are no "dump stats" in Savage Worlds... :arrow:
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#9 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:58 pm

Good suggestions so far. Though note that Tests of Will don't help your party directly unless you get a Raise, but that success makes you more likely to get that Raise on future attempts. Tricks do help the party directly (immediate -2 Parry).

Fleet Footed, to let you move about to those you need to help.

As for Best Support Edges, those are probably Strong Willed, Common Bond (with or without the Luck edges), Healer, the various Leadership edges, and Brave (because you can't help if you're dying of a heart attack).
Action card edges are always nice, but would be a relatively low priority for most support characters.
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#10 Postby galu » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:19 pm

OK, so New Power, Power Points, likely high spirit.
Healer edge! spirit linked, and you can choose some other power then heal :)


FACE
intimidate and persuasion is linked to spirit, which you will have high anyway.
- add taunt for 2 skill points
- add iron will. That's a pretty good support for front liners.

INFO GATHERER
- if you have cheap persuasion anyway, you could squeese in attractive, charismatic or noble
- add streetwise (good with high charisma)
- add connections (synergies with cheap persuasion and charisma bonus!)

INVESTIGATOR?
Why not get smarts d8, streetwise and investigation?

The Command version works too!
inspire (+1 spirit) and hold the line (+1 toughness) are seasoned level, smarts linked though.

FAT SCHOLAR
take elderly and obese. You have two free d6 knowledges (from elderly), add 2 skillpoints and get scholar :)

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#11 Postby ZenFox42 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:36 am

Thanks all, for the ideas! A few comments on some of them...

Dentris, a couple of your Edges are Seasoned, so they're out.
Since I see this character as only attacking in self-defense, Tricks seems like a better choice than Taunt or Intimidate (and Tricks helps everyone else on just a Success, and I don't have to spend skill points!).
In Dark Souls, the PC's can become Undead (!), and the GM has made it clear that the Healing skill only applies to Humans, but the Healing Power applies to everyone. So if I take the Healer Edge, I'd still need the Power.
Galu - Iron Will? Not found in my SWD...were you thinking of Strong Willed?

Everyone else, please continue to make suggestions (and second already-made suggestions)! I'm a firm believer in the democratic system - the Edges with the most votes "win"!
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#12 Postby dap6000 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:53 pm

there's plenty of room for a non-combat "party favor" player character. i don't have much to add to the options already offered here in terms of what can be done out of the core book. but can you tell us a bit more about the makeup of the party?

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#13 Postby Ogre Mage » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:58 am

To echo some of the past comments, Elan and Healer are top choices which will always be useful and a natural choice given your Spirit will be high. Charisma is a good choice so a priest can be persuasive with potential worshipers.
Connections edge (to your religious order) is a natural choice and combos well with Charisma. A non-fighting cleric suggests a caster-focused one, so Extra Power Points is another consideration. Holy Warrior, which gives you the power to repel evil, is good for fighting and non-fighting clerics alike. Every character benefits from Alertness.

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#14 Postby ZenFox42 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:36 am

dap6000 - the recruitment is still coming together, but it looks like so far there's a straight-up Knight in Shining Armor, and a "fire keeper" (basically a fire-based "mage" with a few extra perks specific to the setting).
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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#15 Postby Phasma Felis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:35 pm

Depends on what sort of cleric you want!

Holy Warrior is basically the "I'm a cleric" edge, and should be an automatic choice for D&D-style priests; up to you and the GM whether it fits in Dark Souls.

For a character who's the moral and spiritual backbone of the group, the one that others turn to when things are looking grim, you could take Brave, Common Bond (fueled by Luck/Great Luck), Command, and/or Command Presence (and Inspire at Seasoned). (The other Command edges may not fit as well for a spiritual, rather than tactical, leader.)*

For someone who's poor in a one-on-one fight but still dives in gamely to distract the enemy with Tricks and Tests of Will, there's Strong-Willed and/or Acrobat (possibly trapped as "Defensive Fighter" or "Quarterstaff Expert" if he's not the back-flipping type), and at Seasoned you can take Dirty Fighter (+2 to Tricks; it's from Savage Rifts but makes sense in any setting).

For the wise and learned priest archetype, there's Healer, Scholar, and Linguist.

And of course a priest makes an excellent face in any setting where clergy are respected. Charismatic, Connections, and Investigator may be useful.

*Huh, there's no Leadership edge that gives a bonus to Fear checks. That seems odd. Maybe something like "Fearless (Requirements: Novice, Command, Brave): This leader gives those under his command +1 to Fear checks."

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#16 Postby Ilina_Young » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:09 pm

probably recommend the Succor and Boost Trait powers. i generally take Boost Trait with the Static Bonus Trapping. the Static Bonus replaces each die type increase with a +1 static bonus, meaning +1 with a success or +2 with a raise. which makes it less useful for emulating untrained skills and less capable of boosting derived values, in exchange for increasing the reliability of success on tests with a particular skill or attribute. but it also boosts the wild die, but i have found it to be a balanced trapping due to being less math intensive and providing the immediate desired bonus. effectively, a d6 skill becomes d6+1 with a success and d6+2 with a raise instead of d8 and d10.

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#17 Postby Freemage » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:01 pm

Ilina_Young wrote:probably recommend the Succor and Boost Trait powers. i generally take Boost Trait with the Static Bonus Trapping. the Static Bonus replaces each die type increase with a +1 static bonus, meaning +1 with a success or +2 with a raise. which makes it less useful for emulating untrained skills and less capable of boosting derived values, in exchange for increasing the reliability of success on tests with a particular skill or attribute. but it also boosts the wild die, but i have found it to be a balanced trapping due to being less math intensive and providing the immediate desired bonus. effectively, a d6 skill becomes d6+1 with a success and d6+2 with a raise instead of d8 and d10.


That's actually.... huge. I mean, seriously, I don't see why you'd ever NOT use that Trapping instead of the base effect, or any other Trapping for that matter. A Raise on the spell pretty much pushes you into "anything not a Critical Failure is an automatic success" territory on the vast majority of Trait rolls.

If a player came to me with this, I'd honestly give them the side-eye, and set at LEAST a +2 PP cost to it, maybe even double-cost.

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#18 Postby Brickulos » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:06 pm

Freemage wrote:
Ilina_Young wrote:probably recommend the Succor and Boost Trait powers. i generally take Boost Trait with the Static Bonus Trapping. the Static Bonus replaces each die type increase with a +1 static bonus, meaning +1 with a success or +2 with a raise. which makes it less useful for emulating untrained skills and less capable of boosting derived values, in exchange for increasing the reliability of success on tests with a particular skill or attribute. but it also boosts the wild die, but i have found it to be a balanced trapping due to being less math intensive and providing the immediate desired bonus. effectively, a d6 skill becomes d6+1 with a success and d6+2 with a raise instead of d8 and d10.


That's actually.... huge. I mean, seriously, I don't see why you'd ever NOT use that Trapping instead of the base effect, or any other Trapping for that matter. A Raise on the spell pretty much pushes you into "anything not a Critical Failure is an automatic success" territory on the vast majority of Trait rolls.

If a player came to me with this, I'd honestly give them the side-eye, and set at LEAST a +2 PP cost to it, maybe even double-cost.


If I allowed it at all, it'd be double cost.

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#19 Postby Ilina_Young » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:14 pm

the balancing factor to the static bonus trappings, is it becomes harder to raise untrained skills and it also becomes harder to raise derived values that are based on die type. for example, raising your strength doesn't raise your load capacity, and lowering a target's fighting loses the benefit of lowering thier parry. and most of the time. boost trait might as well be used in combat, because it doesn't have a long enough duration to be used for anything else. it is more consistent though. and roughly the same average as well. not every task has a target number of 4. and getting a raise to get the +2 isn't guaranteed because there aren't really edges that boost arcane skills.

at best. it changes the approach to how the power is used. making it more of a combat power used against highly combat focused opponents.

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Re: Good Edges for a non-fighting "cleric"?

#20 Postby Ilina_Young » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:22 pm

static bonuses are everywhere. you find them in the form of edges and equipment. you can literally get +8 to charisma and a total of +10 to streetwise in just the core rulebook. even then, it is only lasting 3 rounds for the proposed boost trait static bonuses. because the duration doesn't change. 3 rounds for 3 power points is a lot of PP to be spending to simulate the fractional benefit of an edge. because most edges provide +2 to more than just one skill. sure, you can provide +1 or +2 to combat skills, but combat skills aren't usually rolling against just a 4.


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