Custom Summon Ally

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Evil Genius Prime
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Custom Summon Ally

#1 Postby Evil Genius Prime » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:19 pm

Are there any guidelines for creating custom allies for the summon ally power?
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SGT Anjay
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#2 Postby SGT Anjay » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:35 pm

Well, remember that the examples given in the Powers description are just that: examples. They aren't what you "must" take barring houserules. So those examples are the guidelines for whatever specific creature you want to designate for the Power.

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Evil Genius Prime
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#3 Postby Evil Genius Prime » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:01 pm

SGT Anjay wrote:Well, remember that the examples given in the Powers description are just that: examples. They aren't what you "must" take barring houserules. So those examples are the guidelines for whatever specific creature you want to designate for the Power.


I totally get that. Which is why I'm looking for guidelines on what would be balanced at each level of the power.
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ValhallaGH
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#4 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:30 pm

Beyond the guidelines the power already gives?
Those are going to be dictated by the setting, more than anything else. For example, a Fire Elemental is kind of weak in a setting where a shepherd's belt knife is enchanted, but is obscenely powerful in a modern police drama setting that has no magical attacks. That's a setting and campaign concern, one that has to be addressed by the GM that's dealing with the issue.
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#5 Postby SteelDraco » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:17 pm

Sadly, none that I'm aware of. I guess you could calculate the Combat Rating of the given creatures, if you're into that sort of thing, and then base the custom ones off of that. As far as I'm aware that's the only "How tough is this creature?" mechanic that exists in the game. And that's assuming that whatever creature you're putting together is intended to be a combat summon, too.

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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#6 Postby kronovan » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:56 pm

SteelDraco wrote:As far as I'm aware that's the only "How tough is this creature?" mechanic that exists in the game. And that's assuming that whatever creature you're putting together is intended to be a combat summon, too.


It is, but as far as a summoned ally is concerned that's mostly what you have to be concerned about as a GM in terms of game balance. There's lots of tools you can bring into play to challenge PC's and their summoned allies in other encounter types lke social, exploration, etc. I used combat ratings based on the allies in the powers chapter for customs allies in 1 of my campaigns and it worked fine.

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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#7 Postby Phasma Felis » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:47 pm

Evil Genius Prime wrote:Are there any guidelines for creating custom allies for the summon ally power?

Zadmar's Savage Beasts netbook has recommended minimum ranks for each of its 300 (!) animals using the Nature's Ally spell, which is close enough to Summon Ally for these purposes. That might give you some good power-level guidelines, at least if you agree with his judgments.

(Geez, you'd think Zadmar had me on the payroll as often as I mention Savage Beasts. I just like it.)

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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#8 Postby Ilina_Young » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:24 pm

Experienced Soldiers can be customized to have gear appropriate for a typical infantry soldier in that particular setting at the current point in the timeline. for example, you can't summon a Space Marine in a Fantasy setting, but you can Summon one in a futuristic setting. highest you can summon in the 21st century is a 21st century soldier.

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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#9 Postby Snate56 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:59 am

Phasma Felis wrote:(Geez, you'd think Zadmar had me on the payroll as often as I mention Savage Beasts. I just like it.)

Yeah, you would... if he actually made anything off it. :wink: I am anxiously awaiting him to get something onto DriveThruRPG so I can throw money at him!
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#10 Postby Zadmar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:59 am

Snate56 wrote:
Phasma Felis wrote:(Geez, you'd think Zadmar had me on the payroll as often as I mention Savage Beasts. I just like it.)

Yeah, you would... if he actually made anything off it. :wink: I am anxiously awaiting him to get something onto DriveThruRPG so I can throw money at him!
(are you hearing this, Richard?)

Yes, and it's nice to feel appreciated, thanks :) I do intend to sell things on DTRPG in the future, and already have a few things planned and/or in the works, but I'm afraid I won't be publishing anything for Savage Worlds. I wasn't able to get a license, so I've written my own system instead, and will be creating splats and settings for that in the future (once I've finished Saga of the Goblin Horde). Several other publishers want to release their own settings for my system as well, so I'm pretty busy with polishing and playtesting at the moment.

However I don't see why I couldn't still offer free conversion guides under the fan license - it wouldn't be any different to any other fan conversion (like War of the Burning Sky, Shadowrun, Eberron, etc) where you need to purchase the original book in order to use the conversion document.

You could also check out some of the things on DTRPG that I've written for other licensees. Although I've already been paid for my work on those projects, it's still great to see people using and enjoying my creations.
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#11 Postby Phasma Felis » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:53 pm

Zadmar wrote:I'm afraid I won't be publishing anything for Savage Worlds. I wasn't able to get a license

That sucks, I'm sorry. :( Was it too expensive? I don't really know anything about the process.

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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#12 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:15 pm

You can't have a publisher license and stuff posted for a fan license at the same time. :(
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#13 Postby Phasma Felis » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:35 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:You can't have a publisher license and stuff posted for a fan license at the same time. :(

That's weird. :( Is there a reason for that? On the face of it, it seems like discouraging your most prolific fans from transitioning to professional publishing is a really bad idea.

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Zadmar
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#14 Postby Zadmar » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:59 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:You can't have a publisher license and stuff posted for a fan license at the same time. :(

I've seen a few people use both, but there are strict limitations on what official licensees are allowed to do, and those limitations apply to work they release under either license. In particular, licensees are not allowed to change the core rules, which means I'd have to delete my toolkits and most of my other stuff before my application could be considered (there are at least a couple more hoops after that).

It's a bit of a shame, but even most licensees publish under multiple systems, and a few have even written their own systems, so what I'm doing isn't really very different. My production costs have risen dramatically now that I'm using high quality artwork, and it's simply not sustainable if I'm just releasing free products all the time, so I needed to find some sort of compromise.

This way I should be able to continue supporting the SW community through fan conversions, while still recouping my costs with my own system.
My blog: Savage Stuff. I've also written some free tools and supplements.

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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#15 Postby Almagest » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:51 am

Zadmar wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:You can't have a publisher license and stuff posted for a fan license at the same time. :(

I've seen a few people use both, but there are strict limitations on what official licensees are allowed to do, and those limitations apply to work they release under either license. In particular, licensees are not allowed to change the core rules, which means I'd have to delete my toolkits and most of my other stuff before my application could be considered (there are at least a couple more hoops after that).

It's a bit of a shame, but even most licensees publish under multiple systems, and a few have even written their own systems, so what I'm doing isn't really very different. My production costs have risen dramatically now that I'm using high quality artwork, and it's simply not sustainable if I'm just releasing free products all the time, so I needed to find some sort of compromise.

This way I should be able to continue supporting the SW community through fan conversions, while still recouping my costs with my own system.


Man, that sucks. Damn shame, because SW need innovation. I use your toolkits and house rules page a lot. Asking to delete your previous work is simply not reasonable...

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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#16 Postby Lord Lance » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:46 pm

Evil Genius Prime wrote:Are there any guidelines for creating custom allies for the summon ally power?

Want my 2 cents? (not only mine, of course)
The standard Ally you can get with 3 PPs is an Extra, built with 5 "Stat points", and 15 "Skill points".You can add hindrances (as you do with standard characters), and you can "convert" Stat and Skill points in Edges, with the "standard" rate (1:1 Stats to Edge, 2:1 Skills to Edge). You can also add Monster's Abilities, usually treating them as standard Edges (you can search for Zadmar's free PDFs if you want finer details).

So, these are the bases. Now, for an extra PP, usually you get +3 "advancements", ie. "Stat points" that you can use for Stats, Skills (1:2), or Edges, to build more powerful creatures.
Try to limit the access to those powerful/expensive creatures, using higher Rank requirements (ie. 4 PPs = seasoned, 5 PPs = veteran etc.)

I use this method and I'm VERY happy, 'cause I feel that the standard "creatures" are overpowered, and of course I need freedom to create very custom creature to better suit the magical/clerical Trappings chosen by the players.
Finally, I usually give a single creature for every Rank "for free". If a player wants a lot of choices (ie. they want to summon a lot of different, useful, kind of creatures), then you can consider an additional Edge (Master Summoner??) that give access to 2 new creatures (in addition to the free ones).

Zadmar wrote:I've seen a few people use both, but there are strict limitations on what official licensees are allowed to do, and those limitations apply to work they release under either license. In particular, licensees are not allowed to change the core rules, which means I'd have to delete my toolkits and most of my other stuff before my application could be considered (there are at least a couple more hoops after that).

Ouch, this is pretty sad.
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Re: Custom Summon Ally

#17 Postby ZenFox42 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:43 am

Lord Lance, I *really* like that system! Especially about the "only one type of summoned creature for free at Novice"! I'm using that in the next SW game I run (whenever that is)!
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Also:Persuasion,Better Bosses,Better Combat Rating
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