Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

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SteelDraco
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Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#1 Postby SteelDraco » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:40 pm

So, in a discussion today in the Savage Worlds Discord, the subject of failing forward came up. One of the people in the chat mentioned that it's a part of the core rules, and I expressed some surprise, as I had never seen anything like that in there. We got into it, and it turns out that they're playing with the German translation, which apparently has a rule in it that the English version that I have doesn't. This is the translation that was provided to me, from the German edition (emphasis mine):

Critical Skill Dice
You might come across the phrase "a 1 (regardless of the Wild Die)" more often. This rule often applies when the probability of a critical failure is higher than usual. For some, that might seem too much – in that case, the gamemaster should only put the consequences mentioned below into play when there’s actually a critical failure (snake eyes).
Disregarding the Wild Die in such situations leads to significantly more failures by the Wildcards (not as often as Extras, but noticeably). This might be adequate in situations with more difficult conditions (like climbing a slippery cliff), so you should keep that option in mind.
Another alternative is the introduction of complications. If the skill die shows a 1 in these situations while the Wild Die scores a success, the test is successful, but the character suffers a minor complication – in our example he might have climbed the cliff, but lost a piece of equipment on his way up; or a cheater gets caught after he has collected his prize. Situations like that can make the game much more interesting.

So, it looks like the German version of Savage Worlds has a mechanic in it for failing forward - introducing a complication with a success, instead of just the existing SW rules of critical failure/failure/success/raises. It uses a good rule, in that it mimics the existing mechanics for stuff like Arcane Backgrounds, where you can succeed with a complication by getting a 1 on your arcane skill die and a success on your Wild Die.

Was anyone else aware of this? I had no idea it was a rule - it makes me wonder what other stuff is out there in the other translations of the rules. Are there plans to introduce this to the English edition? I personally think it's a really good addition.

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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#2 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:19 pm

That's not "Failing Forward".
Failing Forward is when you fail the task, but still have a path to continue. The new path is usually harder, slower, more dangerous, has fewer rewards, or a combination of those, but it is still a path forward.

What you're describing is "Success At Cost". That's a very different concept.
Further, the version of Success at Cost described is completely random, punishing characters for being Wild Cards. Which is random, frustrating, and generally unfun.
If the Cost happened when you succeeded on the Wild Die but rolled a 1 on the Trait die then that would be better. Then you're paying for a bad Trait roll, but you still succeed due to being an awesome Wild Card. Still not a rule I'd want to use regularly, but better than what you posted.
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Enno
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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#3 Postby Enno » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:18 pm

The german version of Savage Worlds uses no special rules, aside from presenting the older variants of the Incapacitation, Damage, and Chase rules.
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ZenFox42
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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#4 Postby ZenFox42 » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:01 am

ValhallaGH wrote:If the Cost happened when you succeeded on the Wild Die but rolled a 1 on the Trait die then that would be better. Then you're paying for a bad Trait roll, but you still succeed due to being an awesome Wild Card. Still not a rule I'd want to use regularly, but better than what you posted.


SteelDraco wrote:If the skill die shows a 1 in these situations while the Wild Die scores a success, the test is successful, but the character suffers a minor complication...
...it mimics the existing mechanics for stuff like Arcane Backgrounds, where you can succeed with a complication by getting a 1 on your arcane skill die and a success on your Wild Die.


Valhalla, how is what you said any different than what SteelDraco said?
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ValhallaGH
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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#5 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:31 am

What I read was "If the Wild Die is a 1 ...". :oops:

Still, Success At Cost is not Fail Forward.
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SteelDraco
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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#6 Postby SteelDraco » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:58 pm

Enno wrote:The german version of Savage Worlds uses no special rules, aside from presenting the older variants of the Incapacitation, Damage, and Chase rules.

So where did this come from? It's not in my English version. I think it's an interesting generalization of something that's hinted at in the core rules.

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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#7 Postby Enno » Fri Apr 14, 2017 3:38 pm

Neither in mine, nor in my different german ones.
Failing forward is nowhere hinted in the core rules. Presenting alternative solutions to solve certain situations is part of my role as GM, and needs no further ruling. It's GMs fiat.
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Vasant
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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#8 Postby Vasant » Sat Apr 15, 2017 2:00 am

Yeah, I was a bit surprised that nobody knew this rule – I use it quite often.
Please check again, Enno. page 19 of the GERTA or page 35 of the GER.

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Re: Failing forward from the German Savage Worlds

#9 Postby Enno » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:16 am

Ah, that one...

As mentioned before, this is NOT Failing Forward.

The optional rule you mentioned is a Roll with Complications, or Success At A Cost, as ValhallaGH called it. It corresponds roughly to a Club as an Action Card.
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