[SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

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[SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#1 Postby Spamotron » Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:58 pm

I imagine that almost anyone who has gone through the Superpowers Companion has thought about the implications of a power build something like this:

Power Level: Four Color
Rank: Novice
Attributes: Agility d12 Smarts d6 Spirit d6 Strength d6 Vigor d6 Toughness 9(4) Parry 8
Skills: Fighting d12, Healing d6, Knowledge (Law) d4, Notice d6, Stealth d12
Hindrances: Heroic (Major), Overconfident (Major), Stubborn (Minor), Vengeful (Minor) (Going for the Heroic in a crisis, Jerkass in day to day life archetype)
Edges: Arcane Background (Superpowers), Quick
Powers: Attack, Melee 5 (Trapping: Destructive Vibration, Heavy Weapon, Multiple Attacks, Stackable, 15 Points), Extra Actions 5 (15 Points), Speed (Mach 1, Blinding Reflexes, Surface Tension, 15 Points)
Starting Gear: Body Armor ($200), Commlink ($100), Short Sword ($200)

What I'm curious about is if anyone has actually tried such a build in actual play. Was it fun? Boringly overpowered? Trouble for the GM? Suffer from too much Focus Fire from the badguys? etc.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#2 Postby Freemage » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:46 pm

Spamotron wrote:I imagine that almost anyone who has gone through the Superpowers Companion has thought about the implications of a power build something like this:

Power Level: Four Color
Rank: Novice
Attributes: Agility d12 Smarts d6 Spirit d6 Strength d6 Vigor d6 Toughness 9(4) Parry 8
Skills: Fighting d12, Healing d6, Knowledge (Law) d4, Notice d6, Stealth d12
Hindrances: Heroic (Major), Overconfident (Major), Stubborn (Minor), Vengeful (Minor) (Going for the Heroic in a crisis, Jerkass in day to day life archetype)
Edges: Arcane Background (Superpowers), Quick
Powers: Attack, Melee 5 (Trapping: Destructive Vibration, Heavy Weapon, Multiple Attacks, Stackable, 15 Points), Extra Actions 5 (15 Points), Speed (Mach 1, Blinding Reflexes, Surface Tension, 15 Points)
Starting Gear: Body Armor ($200), Commlink ($100), Short Sword ($200)

What I'm curious about is if anyone has actually tried such a build in actual play. Was it fun? Boringly overpowered? Trouble for the GM? Suffer from too much Focus Fire from the badguys? etc.


No play experience with SPC, yet, but some thoughts:

One thing jumps out at me very, very quickly--this guy is nothing more than target practice for a flyer with Attack, Ranged. He doesn't even have Reach (which can get absurd on Attack, Melee, if you want to go there). He might be able to get airborne with power stunts, but I think he's still going to end up needing to go hide whenever the issue of air support comes up. (Granted, at Stealth d12, he's good at "go hide", but a clever GM would make his nemesis some sort of Notice expert--let's say Evil Hawkwoman, but instead of an energy mace, she's got a couple wrist-blasters.)

He's also fairly weak against psychic attacks and the like. I'm seeing Improved Level Headed on a mind-controller being a bit of a bane for him--his speed does nothing if all he does with it is put on the cuffs faster. And of course, if he's in a situation where his mobility is curtailed, it'll weaken his tactical options by quite a bit.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#3 Postby DoctorBoson » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:54 pm

I've not seen this kind of build in play, but I can see that they're gonna be pretty much useless against all of the robot soldiers with jetpacks that you can throw at them, but there are certainly ways to make this worse than it is. For example, taking modifiers like Device and Lethal could allow more points in other powers like Regeneration, Super Edge or Super Skill. Additionally, most supers settings allow for a starting funds of $1,000, so he has at least $500 more; that short sword could be a lot scarier as a molecular blade or a chainsword.

There is also the possibility of something like Entangle, which could completely immobilize him (and super-marksmen can hit Mach 1 speedsters without too much issue), and even if he's running through hordes of enemies, a firing squad of 8 men with d8 Shooting and M-16s can still wound him without too much issue. I think the effect on combat comes down to "who draws higher Initiative," and it bumps up the scale (and typically length) of an encounter. That said, if he's working with other players then I'm sure they'd be just as bullshitty as this guy.

That said, though, GM's do hold the right to look at a concept and say "well wait, hold on, let's tweak this," or even go so far as to refuse a character altogether. Normally, I cap Mach 1 speedsters at something like Str+2d6 with Multiple Attacks switchable with one "super punch" without Multiple Attacks, so that bricks can shine in the "hitting hard" department and so that speedsters have a choice of going soft on a lot of targets or going hard on one. Of course, each GM has their own rules and can do as their table demands.
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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#4 Postby Deskepticon » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:16 am

Well, in response to the above criticisms, this speedster still has 10 unspent points from Super Karma. So he still has a chance to improve his game against flyers.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#5 Postby Jounichi » Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:41 am

Deskepticon wrote:Well, in response to the above criticisms, this speedster still has 10 unspent points from Super Karma. So he still has a chance to improve his game against flyers.

Yes, but the speedster in shouldn't be able to do it all. Some weaknesses are to be expected. Assuming the GM allows you to take 6 attack actions in a single turn, that's 7d6 damage for an average of around 28 damage? That will take down most enemies pretty solidly. My issue is he only has a d12 in Fighting. I was expecting more from someone who can move and react faster than most others can think, especially when it's all from regular training and not powers. I'm also curious as to how he has a d12 in Agility when legally the highest he can go is d10.

Personally, I would drop the sword and stackable and consider shoring up some defenses. Super Agility and Not Today would be fantastically helpful. So would some ranks in Super Skill (Fighting) and/or Regeneration to simulate a heightened metabolism. For that matter, so would immunity to disease and/or poisons.

This is supposed to be a Novice character who, presumably, only recently acquired their powers. What does this person do with a d12 Fighting, d6 Healing, and d4 Law? What was their job beforehand? Heck, why even bother with the Healing skill when there's a far better power?

No offense to Spamotron, but this character (at least to me) reeks of not only being a one-trick pony, but of being poorly thought out in general.
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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#6 Postby Freemage » Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:05 am

Deskepticon wrote:Well, in response to the above criticisms, this speedster still has 10 unspent points from Super Karma. So he still has a chance to improve his game against flyers.


They aren't criticisms; rather, they're addressing the OP's concerns that such a build is somehow overpowered. That's why it's important to keep the source material (superhero comic books) in mind; the most lasting villains in a superhero's Rogues Gallery are going to fall into two categories--competitors who have an almost identical power-set, possibly even being slightly better at your key schtick, and complementary supers who have powers that completely undermine yours. This guy will mow down ground-based, normal-speed opponents quickly, which is fine--that's how it'd play out in the source material. But after cutting down a few bruisers, he ends up running headlong into The Manticore, who stays out of his reach while raining down poison spikes.

Or maybe this time, it's Nightmare, intangibly inducing irritating illusions.

You get the idea. Almost any high-point build is going to have an area where they seem overpowered, because they are. That's kind of the point of the genre. But the system is pretty well balanced in terms of offering areas where the character's abilities are modestly useful, at best.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#7 Postby Spamotron » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:25 pm

Jounichi wrote:
Deskepticon wrote:Well, in response to the above criticisms, this speedster still has 10 unspent points from Super Karma. So he still has a chance to improve his game against flyers.

Yes, but the speedster in shouldn't be able to do it all. Some weaknesses are to be expected. Assuming the GM allows you to take 6 attack actions in a single turn, that's 7d6 damage for an average of around 28 damage? That will take down most enemies pretty solidly. My issue is he only has a d12 in Fighting. I was expecting more from someone who can move and react faster than most others can think, especially when it's all from regular training and not powers. I'm also curious as to how he has a d12 in Agility when legally the highest he can go is d10.

Personally, I would drop the sword and stackable and consider shoring up some defenses. Super Agility and Not Today would be fantastically helpful. So would some ranks in Super Skill (Fighting) and/or Regeneration to simulate a heightened metabolism. For that matter, so would immunity to disease and/or poisons.

This is supposed to be a Novice character who, presumably, only recently acquired their powers. What does this person do with a d12 Fighting, d6 Healing, and d4 Law? What was their job beforehand? Heck, why even bother with the Healing skill when there's a far better power?

No offense to Spamotron, but this character (at least to me) reeks of not only being a one-trick pony, but of being poorly thought out in general.


Remember that in Savage Worlds the skills are abstract and can represent a lot of different things not just formal training. The d12 Fighting represents just how much of an advantage super-speed gives in a fight. Stealth d12 is because sneaking is easy when the people looking for you are clumsy and move in slow motion compared to yourself. (Also note that other posters have criticized this build for only having fighting d12) If you're a superhero who fights crime having no understanding of the laws you're supposedly upholding seems foolish. Superheros also don't just fight crime they respond to emergencies and disasters hence healing d6 representing first aid training.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#8 Postby Deskepticon » Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:25 pm

I meant "criticisms" in the "constructive" sense. I wasn't implying anyone was simply just crapping on the build.

I didn't take time to really crunch the build earlier. On closer inspection, it looks like he should already have 6 PP in super Agility, leaving him just 4 points left to spend.

Judging by the "dangerous vibration" Trapping, I'm guessing this guy is modeled after the DC-style speedster. With that said, I agree throwing some points into Regeneration is a good idea. Also, if his high Fighting and Stealth are derived from his Speed, he should be using Super Skill to gain those levels. Losing his speed also robs him of his increased abilities. It's also a good idea as it would allow him to diversify his "mundane" skills better. I agree with Jounichi... drop the Stackable mod and use those points in Super Skill.

Of course, this assumes you want to seriously use this build. As a concept for an overpowered character, it works fine at taking out lots of mooks, or even a decently powerful boss. But his lack of diversity means he is quite a "one trick pony." He'll probably get very boring to play very fast, unless the campaign is very combat oriented.
Last edited by Deskepticon on Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#9 Postby Jounichi » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:16 pm

Spamotron wrote:Remember that in Savage Worlds the skills are abstract and can represent a lot of different things not just formal training. The d12 Fighting represents just how much of an advantage super-speed gives in a fight. Stealth d12 is because sneaking is easy when the people looking for you are clumsy and move in slow motion compared to yourself. (Also note that other posters have criticized this build for only having fighting d12) If you're a superhero who fights crime having no understanding of the laws you're supposedly upholding seems foolish. Superheros also don't just fight crime they respond to emergencies and disasters hence healing d6 representing first aid training.

I haven't forgotten anything. If his Fighting skill is a reflection of his speed giving him an advantage, then he needs power points to boost that skill. Right now he has a d12 Fighting even with nullifier cuffs on, which is a big deal. Same goes for the d12 Stealth. These are presently innate abilities he would still have even without his powers. Personally, I think the Stealth is a bit of a stretch, but his net Fighting die should probably be higher. As for the healing skill...maybe. This guy moves at Mach 1, more than 10 times what any ambulance in a city is capable of. There's no reason why this guy couldn't just run people to trained medical professionals. That's actually pretty important because without medical supplies his Healing roll is at -2. As for the Law knowledge, a d4 isn't terrible. Like you said, knowing a little bit is alright, and it is only a 1-point investment. But how much could be accomplished with just common knowledge? If it's a setting where everyone is a superhero, that might just be assumed.

I like speedsters, but what you have here is, quite frankly, uninteresting and easy to counter. I know he's incomplete, and you still haven't addressed how he got a d12 Agility with every other attribute at d6, but no...just, no...I wouldn't play him. If I were GMing I'd tear him apart at my table; probably without even trying.
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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#10 Postby Spamotron » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:57 pm

Jounichi wrote:
Spamotron wrote:Remember that in Savage Worlds the skills are abstract and can represent a lot of different things not just formal training. The d12 Fighting represents just how much of an advantage super-speed gives in a fight. Stealth d12 is because sneaking is easy when the people looking for you are clumsy and move in slow motion compared to yourself. (Also note that other posters have criticized this build for only having fighting d12) If you're a superhero who fights crime having no understanding of the laws you're supposedly upholding seems foolish. Superheros also don't just fight crime they respond to emergencies and disasters hence healing d6 representing first aid training.

I haven't forgotten anything. If his Fighting skill is a reflection of his speed giving him an advantage, then he needs power points to boost that skill. Right now he has a d12 Fighting even with nullifier cuffs on, which is a big deal. Same goes for the d12 Stealth. These are presently innate abilities he would still have even without his powers. Personally, I think the Stealth is a bit of a stretch, but his net Fighting die should probably be higher. As for the healing skill...maybe. This guy moves at Mach 1, more than 10 times what any ambulance in a city is capable of. There's no reason why this guy couldn't just run people to trained medical professionals. That's actually pretty important because without medical supplies his Healing roll is at -2. As for the Law knowledge, a d4 isn't terrible. Like you said, knowing a little bit is alright, and it is only a 1-point investment. But how much could be accomplished with just common knowledge? If it's a setting where everyone is a superhero, that might just be assumed.

I like speedsters, but what you have here is, quite frankly, uninteresting and easy to counter. I know he's incomplete, and you still haven't addressed how he got a d12 Agility with every other attribute at d6, but no...just, no...I wouldn't play him. If I were GMing I'd tear him apart at my table; probably without even trying.


That was me misreading the Super Karma rules and not noticing the extra hindrance could give you a whopping 10 whole power points at four color. Use the starting attribute points to raise all 5 attributes to d6 use the points from 2 Major and 2 Minor hindrances to raise Agility to d12. In the next iteration I'll leave it at d10 and take the power points instead.

When it comes to skills there are multiple superhero genres. You apparently like characters to be average schmoes without their powers and that's fine. But in the Silver Age tradition I associate with the Four Color power level most heroes are exceptionally skilled individuals even without their powers. Barry Allen the Flash is a brilliant forensic scientist. Hal Jordan Green Lantern is an elite test pilot. Wonder Woman is an Amazon who has trained in her cultures martial traditions before she could walk. The X-Men have been training in tactics and self defense for years before their public debut. Peter Parker Spider-Man is a genius polymath who invented and built his webshooters on a highschooler's budget. Etc.

So general consensus appears to be that the build's offensive prowess is manageable in real games and it in fact needs to be further optimized to add more defense.

So Version 2:

Rank: Novice
Power Level: Four Color
Attributes: Agility d12 + 2 Smarts d6 Spirit d6 Strength d6 Vigor d6 Toughness 9 (4) Parry 9 Pace Mach One Charisma 0 Load Limit 30 lbs.
Skills: Fighting d12 + 2, Notice d6, Stealth d10, Shooting d8, Streetwise d6
Hindrances: Heroic (Major), Overconfidence (Major), Stubborn (Minor), Vengeful (Minor)
Edges: Arcane Background (Superpowers), Quick
Powers: Attack, Melee 5 (Heavy Weapon, Multiple Attacks, Lethal 12 Points), Extra Actions 5 (15 Points), Speed (Mach 1, Blinding Reflexes, Surface Tension, 15 Points), Regeneration 1 (2 Points), Super Attribute 3 (Agility, Not Today, 8 Points), Super Skill 3 (Fighting, 3 Points)
Starting Gear: Body Armor (4 lbs., $200), Commlink (1 oz., $100), Colt 1911 (4 lbs., $200)

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#11 Postby Myrmicus » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:06 am

What I did tried in play was a Super Drone NPC in a Necessary Evil Campaign, using a Seasoned Four-Colour preset and adding in Hyper-Drone black armor plating (+6 armor), vibro-claws (Attack Melee, +1d6, AP 2, HW, Lethal) and arm-blaster (attack ranged, 3d6, AP 4) to represent the drone parts... It ended up with something like :
Rank : Seasoned
Attributes : Agility d12+2, Smarts d6, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d6
Skills : Fighting d12+2, Notice d6, Shooting d6, Streetwise d6, Taunt d8
Edges : Super Powers, Power Points x2, Acrobat, Quick
Hindrances : 2 majors, 2 minors, since he became a drone NPC, it don't matter really
Powers (50PP + 12Drone PP) :
(22) Speed - Near Light Speed, Blinding Reflexes, Pummel, Surface Tension (Lightning fast)
(9) Extra Action x2, Fast Action (Lightning fast)
(8+3) Attack Melee, Str+3d6, AP 2, Heavy Weapon, Lethal, Multiple Attacks, Stackable (Lightning fast strikes + vibro claws)
(5) Duplication x2, Contingent -1 (Speed) (So fast his after-image still hurts)
(4) Super Agility +2 (Intensive training)
(2) Super Fighting +2 (Speed gives an edge)
(3) Armor +6 (Black-Armor Plating)
(6) Attack Ranged, range 12/24/48, 3d6, AP 4, Rof 1 (Drone Blaster-Arm)

During the actual play, bear in mind that player had access to nazi cybernetics and demonic powers (through runed tattoos, demonic possession and special drone core batteries) grating them new defined powers, up to 15PP in total (essentially turning them into Heavy Hitters).

They did killed him, by being smart. There is means to destroy characters one would think impossible to defeat.
And I think the main opponents in Necessary Evil are mentalists for a reason.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#12 Postby Jounichi » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:58 am

Spamotron wrote:When it comes to skills there are multiple superhero genres. You apparently like characters to be average schmoes without their powers and that's fine. But in the Silver Age tradition I associate with the Four Color power level most heroes are exceptionally skilled individuals even without their powers. Barry Allen the Flash is a brilliant forensic scientist. Hal Jordan Green Lantern is an elite test pilot. Wonder Woman is an Amazon who has trained in her cultures martial traditions before she could walk. The X-Men have been training in tactics and self defense for years before their public debut. Peter Parker Spider-Man is a genius polymath who invented and built his webshooters on a highschooler's budget. Etc.

Most heroes are ordinary, to a certain degree. There's always been a great deal of fluctuation because the hero does whatever the writer needs him or her to do at that time. Working with concrete rules places actual limitations on what your characters can and cannot do. Still, you can easily get in the ballpark.

Hal Jordan was a military test pilot, so he'd have at least a d8 Agility and the Ace Edge along with some general combat skills and maybe a bachelor's degree. Forensic scientist Barrence Allen is mostly a normal guy with a scientific degree or two. He might have the Scholar Edge (and the d8 Smarts go along with it), but he's actually pretty normal up until becoming The Flash. What I think is particularly cool about him is he would have Super Edge (Improved Level Headed) because he can now process information faster than normal and act accordingly. Scott Lang, the second Ant-Man, is similarly "normal" being a professional thief with a master's degree in electrical engineering. I could build that as a Novice character pretty easily, but realistically he's probably got at least a few advances under his belt from previous misadventures. He did wind up in prison, after all.

So no, I don't think I like my characters a certain way (at least not in the way you describe), but I do recognize the idiosyncrasies of working with a system dependent on actual rules. That's not meant to be a slight against you. There's always going to be a learning curve. I've had to face disillusionment with making (or converting) dream characters before.
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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#13 Postby Deskepticon » Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:11 pm

Spamotron wrote:When it comes to skills there are multiple superhero genres. You apparently like characters to be average schmoes without their powers and that's fine. But in the Silver Age tradition I associate with the Four Color power level most heroes are exceptionally skilled individuals even without their powers. Barry Allen the Flash is a brilliant forensic scientist. Hal Jordan Green Lantern is an elite test pilot. Wonder Woman is an Amazon who has trained in her cultures martial traditions before she could walk. The X-Men have been training in tactics and self defense for years before their public debut. Peter Parker Spider-Man is a genius polymath who invented and built his webshooters on a highschooler's budget. Etc.

So general consensus appears to be that the build's offensive prowess is manageable in real games and it in fact needs to be further optimized to add more defense.


Yes, but this is what you said earlier:
The d12 Fighting represents just how much of an advantage super-speed gives in a fight. Stealth d12 is because sneaking is easy when the people looking for you are clumsy and move in slow motion compared to yourself.

Implying quite clearly that the skills (at those levels at least) are tied to his powers. So if he lost his powers, he would lose the levels as well.

This is why having a clear concept is important. So while it might be true that Cyclops' physical prowess and tactical advantage are products of his "mundane" training regiment, I would argue that he is also not a Novice character.

So Version 2:

Rank: Novice
Power Level: Four Color
Attributes: Agility d12 + 2 Smarts d6 Spirit d6 Strength d6 Vigor d6 Toughness 9 (4) Parry 9 Pace Mach One Charisma 0 Load Limit 30 lbs.
Skills: Fighting d12 + 2, Notice d6, Stealth d10, Shooting d8, Streetwise d6
Hindrances: Heroic (Major), Overconfidence (Major), Stubborn (Minor), Vengeful (Minor)
Edges: Arcane Background (Superpowers), Quick
Powers: Attack, Melee 5 (Heavy Weapon, Multiple Attacks, Lethal 12 Points), Extra Actions 5 (15 Points), Speed (Mach 1, Blinding Reflexes, Surface Tension, 15 Points), Regeneration 1 (2 Points), Super Attribute 3 (Agility, Not Today, 8 Points), Super Skill 3 (Fighting, 3 Points)
Starting Gear: Body Armor (4 lbs., $200), Commlink (1 oz., $100), Colt 1911 (4 lbs., $200)


Okay, so my previous post completely overlooked the bonus points from Hindrances. :1kopfpatsch: (Note to self: don't think before you've had coffee :lol: )

The numbers add up*, but as I mentioned above, concept is important. So what's this guy's story? Because it seems like since the original was poor against ranged opponents, all of a sudden this guy is now an expert marksman. Who has now apparently dropped out of law school to collect antique firearms.
* Except his Pace, which is still just 6. Speed makes running a free action and makes his "running speed" Mach 1.

While he is certainly more versatile than his predecessor, it is not a build I would accept without a really good, justifiable backstory. So if the question is, "How will this guy do?" The answer is, "Pretty well, overall." But it you actually wanted to play him, as a GM I don't see a cohesive concept... just a mash of random abilities.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#14 Postby Freemage » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:46 pm

Deskepticon wrote:
Spamotron wrote:When it comes to skills there are multiple superhero genres. You apparently like characters to be average schmoes without their powers and that's fine. But in the Silver Age tradition I associate with the Four Color power level most heroes are exceptionally skilled individuals even without their powers. Barry Allen the Flash is a brilliant forensic scientist. Hal Jordan Green Lantern is an elite test pilot. Wonder Woman is an Amazon who has trained in her cultures martial traditions before she could walk. The X-Men have been training in tactics and self defense for years before their public debut. Peter Parker Spider-Man is a genius polymath who invented and built his webshooters on a highschooler's budget. Etc.

So general consensus appears to be that the build's offensive prowess is manageable in real games and it in fact needs to be further optimized to add more defense.


Yes, but this is what you said earlier:
The d12 Fighting represents just how much of an advantage super-speed gives in a fight. Stealth d12 is because sneaking is easy when the people looking for you are clumsy and move in slow motion compared to yourself.

Implying quite clearly that the skills (at those levels at least) are tied to his powers. So if he lost his powers, he would lose the levels as well.

This is why having a clear concept is important. So while it might be true that Cyclops' physical prowess and tactical advantage are products of his "mundane" training regiment, I would argue that he is also not a Novice character.

So Version 2:

Rank: Novice
Power Level: Four Color
Attributes: Agility d12 + 2 Smarts d6 Spirit d6 Strength d6 Vigor d6 Toughness 9 (4) Parry 9 Pace Mach One Charisma 0 Load Limit 30 lbs.
Skills: Fighting d12 + 2, Notice d6, Stealth d10, Shooting d8, Streetwise d6
Hindrances: Heroic (Major), Overconfidence (Major), Stubborn (Minor), Vengeful (Minor)
Edges: Arcane Background (Superpowers), Quick
Powers: Attack, Melee 5 (Heavy Weapon, Multiple Attacks, Lethal 12 Points), Extra Actions 5 (15 Points), Speed (Mach 1, Blinding Reflexes, Surface Tension, 15 Points), Regeneration 1 (2 Points), Super Attribute 3 (Agility, Not Today, 8 Points), Super Skill 3 (Fighting, 3 Points)
Starting Gear: Body Armor (4 lbs., $200), Commlink (1 oz., $100), Colt 1911 (4 lbs., $200)


Okay, so my previous post completely overlooked the bonus points from Hindrances. :1kopfpatsch: (Note to self: don't think before you've had coffee :lol: )

The numbers add up*, but as I mentioned above, concept is important. So what's this guy's story? Because it seems like since the original was poor against ranged opponents, all of a sudden this guy is now an expert marksman. Who has now apparently dropped out of law school to collect antique firearms.
* Except his Pace, which is still just 6. Speed makes running a free action and makes his "running speed" Mach 1.

While he is certainly more versatile than his predecessor, it is not a build I would accept without a really good, justifiable backstory. So if the question is, "How will this guy do?" The answer is, "Pretty well, overall." But it you actually wanted to play him, as a GM I don't see a cohesive concept... just a mash of random abilities.


Well, the key thing that stands out about him is, of course, the Fighting trait and the associated Agility; the rest mostly are fine, in both conceptions of the character. I agree that "fighting comes from super-speed" would mean that the score should be derived from Super-Skill--but supposing it was the other way 'round: "Super-Speed comes from Fighting"? Basically, go with the classic, if rather hackneyed, "Mystic Warrior trained in the Thousand Weapon Strike". He is a Novice, because his empowerment is recent, the result of completing his 'basic' training and achieving that d12 in Fighting--it's now the gateway, rather than a side-effect.

Healing and Stealth are now just things he picked up with the order that trained him (could go with either a Tibetan martial artist group, a European Knights Templar order, a Native American Ghost Dancer Society, or an African Totemic Lodge--it doesn't matter, save that the power names will need to be adjusted, and trappings might come into play).

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#15 Postby Spamotron » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:06 pm

The concept is Speedster Professional Superhero (who is a bit of a jerk in day to day outside heroing). Wally West Flash was a full time superhero. So are the Fantastic Four. So are the X-Men. Only some heroes have a secret identity and a day-job. Not all of them do.

As for regular skills versus Super Skill. I see the system as more abstract than you guys do and consider the difference insignificant.

Before you say "not at my table," I'm not playing at your table am I?

I'm sorry if that sounds flippant Jounochi and Freemage but I really am getting a vibe of "badwrongfun," from your criticisms.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#16 Postby Freemage » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:34 pm

Spamotron wrote:The concept is Speedster Professional Superhero (who is a bit of a jerk in day to day outside heroing). Wally West Flash was a full time superhero. So are the Fantastic Four. So are the X-Men. Only some heroes have a secret identity and a day-job. Not all of them do.

As for regular skills versus Super Skill. I see the system as more abstract than you guys do and consider the difference insignificant.

Before you say "not at my table," I'm not playing at your table am I?

I'm sorry if that sounds flippant Jounochi and Freemage but I really am getting a vibe of "badwrongfun," from your criticisms.


Um... Sure. I was actually pointing out that the stats laid out would be a fairly straightforward one to write a backstory for, to meet Jounochi's complaint. My only actual critique was responding to the initial post where the question was, "Is this overpowered" and I responded, "No, because flyers."

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#17 Postby Deskepticon » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:01 pm

Spamotron wrote:The concept is Speedster Professional Superhero (who is a bit of a jerk in day to day outside heroing). Wally West Flash was a full time superhero. So are the Fantastic Four. So are the X-Men. Only some heroes have a secret identity and a day-job. Not all of them do.

Fine, but I meant an actual backstory. Not a vague description. Something to explain his high Fighting, Stealth, Shooting. Which of his powers is the predominant one? How did he acquire them?
That sort of thing.

As for regular skills versus Super Skill. I see the system as more abstract than you guys do and consider the difference insignificant.

I'm guessing you haven't GM'ed much. Those details become important when you need to create a suitable challenge for your players. More than that, it builds immersion; it makes the game world believable. If a guy's super speed gives him a higher Fighting skill, nullifying his speed should reduce his fighting prowess. If we don't see that occur, then what other "rules" can be broken?

I'm sorry if that sounds flippant Jounochi and Freemage but I really am getting a vibe of "badwrongfun," from your criticisms.

I'm feeling left out. :1frown:
Not my intent to kill your fun. Quite the opposite. Sure your speedster can kickass. But what motivates him? Why is he a jerk? Did something cause him to become bitter, or is he just a meathead? The more depth you give him the more interesting he becomes to play.
Otherwise you're just running around waiting for the next brawl.

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Re: [SPC2] The "Killer Speedster" in actual play

#18 Postby Spamotron » Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:04 pm

Deskepticon wrote:
Spamotron wrote:The concept is Speedster Professional Superhero (who is a bit of a jerk in day to day outside heroing). Wally West Flash was a full time superhero. So are the Fantastic Four. So are the X-Men. Only some heroes have a secret identity and a day-job. Not all of them do.

Fine, but I meant an actual backstory. Not a vague description. Something to explain his high Fighting, Stealth, Shooting. Which of his powers is the predominant one? How did he acquire them?
That sort of thing.

As for regular skills versus Super Skill. I see the system as more abstract than you guys do and consider the difference insignificant.

I'm guessing you haven't GM'ed much. Those details become important when you need to create a suitable challenge for your players. More than that, it builds immersion; it makes the game world believable. If a guy's super speed gives him a higher Fighting skill, nullifying his speed should reduce his fighting prowess. If we don't see that occur, then what other "rules" can be broken?

I'm sorry if that sounds flippant Jounochi and Freemage but I really am getting a vibe of "badwrongfun," from your criticisms.

I'm feeling left out. :1frown:
Not my intent to kill your fun. Quite the opposite. Sure your speedster can kickass. But what motivates him? Why is he a jerk? Did something cause him to become bitter, or is he just a meathead? The more depth you give him the more interesting he becomes to play.
Otherwise you're just running around waiting for the next brawl.


Further development depends on if this character gets to be played at an actual table. This thread was the first step in that to see if the concept was viable in actual practical play and its served its purpose for that.

Thanks for everyone's help.


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