[NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

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Brickulos
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[NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#1 Postby Brickulos » Thu Mar 09, 2017 12:08 pm

So I was considering making an NPC for an upcoming Necessary Evil game modeled after the classic conception of the three aspect goddess: the Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone. Obviously this will involve using Switchable, but I'm trying to brainstorm what would be thematically appropriate for each set. I figured the Maiden might have levels of Speed and Regeneration to reflect youthful energy and the Mother might be more protective with a powerful Attack, Melee and maybe Protector modifying Deflection and Parry.

Any ideas of what paradigms might be appropriate? Or what the Crone's focus might be? All suggestions and input appreciated.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#2 Postby SteelDraco » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:01 pm

I would probably do the Maiden as a mind-controller, the mother as a warrior-type, and the crone as a ranged attacker with death or decay trappings. Usually in that sort of mythology, the maiden is all about innocence, but a corrupted or hostile version could be about seduction. The mother as a guardian of her children is clear. The crone is typically associated with death and the end of life - in mythology she's the one that cuts the string of your life, ending it.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#3 Postby Brickulos » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:23 pm

SteelDraco wrote:I would probably do the Maiden as a mind-controller, the mother as a warrior-type, and the crone as a ranged attacker with death or decay trappings. Usually in that sort of mythology, the maiden is all about innocence, but a corrupted or hostile version could be about seduction. The mother as a guardian of her children is clear. The crone is typically associated with death and the end of life - in mythology she's the one that cuts the string of your life, ending it.


That's a pretty negative spin for two out of three though isn't it? If this was a PC character I'd suggest the Crone have Super Sorcery because she represents wisdom and the power of knowledge. Though that is too complex for an NPC that I have to juggle. Plus making the Maiden a Femme Fatale is just too cliche.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#4 Postby Freemage » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:26 pm

So, I did a five-second Wiki research, and got this:

The Maiden represents enchantment, inception, expansion, the promise of new beginnings, birth, youth and youthful enthusiasm, represented by the waxing moon;
The Mother represents ripeness, fertility, sexuality, fulfilment, stability, power and life represented by the full moon;
The Crone represents wisdom, repose, death, and endings represented by the waning moon.

The triple goddess sign is identified with Greek moon goddesses:

Artemis – the Maiden, because she is the virgin goddess of the hunt;
Selene – the Mother, for she is the mother of Endymion's children and loved him;
Hecate – the Crone, as she is associated with the underworld and magic, and so considered to be "Queen of Witches".


So, for starters, I'd give the character Ageless and Fearless, not part of Switchable--she adopts the aspects of age, but she herself is outside of such constraints, and well, Fearless has different Trappings in each aspect, but same basic game effect. (Maiden: Reckless abandon; Mother: Fierce determination; Crone: Jaded cynicism)

I'd give the Maiden Gifted, Regeneration, and Speed.
For the Mother, swap in Deflection/Protector, Healing and Force Control (Limitation: Force Fields only)
Since you don't want to go Super Sorcery for the Crone, yes, she's the attacker of the trio--Decay (Strong/Rapid) [Alternately, Infection/Strong], Fear, Awareness and/or Danger Sense (to represent the Wisdom aspect)

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#5 Postby dentris » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:49 pm

You could also use the duty of the Norns as a basis. The youngest weaves your fate (creation), the middle one measures it (control) and the old one cuts it (death and destruction).

So the Maiden would have Energy and Matter control, probably with master.
The Mother have all sorts of control ability, like mind control, paralysis, jinx, stun, etc.
The Crone is about death, with ranged attacks, decay, malfunction.

All the trappings would be about time and fate.
But the Voice consoles me and it says: "Keep your dreams;
Wise men do not have such beautiful ones as fools!"
--Baudelaire, Les Fleurs du Mal, 1857, Translated by William Aggeler, 1954

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#6 Postby Deskepticon » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:31 pm

For what its worth, these are all good... but I like Freemage's build best.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#7 Postby SteelDraco » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:53 pm

Brickulos wrote:
SteelDraco wrote:I would probably do the Maiden as a mind-controller, the mother as a warrior-type, and the crone as a ranged attacker with death or decay trappings. Usually in that sort of mythology, the maiden is all about innocence, but a corrupted or hostile version could be about seduction. The mother as a guardian of her children is clear. The crone is typically associated with death and the end of life - in mythology she's the one that cuts the string of your life, ending it.


That's a pretty negative spin for two out of three though isn't it? If this was a PC character I'd suggest the Crone have Super Sorcery because she represents wisdom and the power of knowledge. Though that is too complex for an NPC that I have to juggle. Plus making the Maiden a Femme Fatale is just too cliche.

Yeah, understandable. I do think Artemis is a way better model for the Maiden; Freemage is right on that one. Depends a bit on if you're doing it based on the Greek myths or the Norse ones, or perhaps another I'm not as familiar with.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#8 Postby Brickulos » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:32 pm

SteelDraco wrote:
Brickulos wrote:
SteelDraco wrote:I would probably do the Maiden as a mind-controller, the mother as a warrior-type, and the crone as a ranged attacker with death or decay trappings. Usually in that sort of mythology, the maiden is all about innocence, but a corrupted or hostile version could be about seduction. The mother as a guardian of her children is clear. The crone is typically associated with death and the end of life - in mythology she's the one that cuts the string of your life, ending it.


That's a pretty negative spin for two out of three though isn't it? If this was a PC character I'd suggest the Crone have Super Sorcery because she represents wisdom and the power of knowledge. Though that is too complex for an NPC that I have to juggle. Plus making the Maiden a Femme Fatale is just too cliche.

Yeah, understandable. I do think Artemis is a way better model for the Maiden; Freemage is right on that one. Depends a bit on if you're doing it based on the Greek myths or the Norse ones, or perhaps another I'm not as familiar with.


I was going to go more archetypal. Like familiar but not exactly conforming to any specific mythology, as if they are a new trinity or perhaps the source of the myth. Kinda American Gods/ The Sandman. Freemage's suggestions seem like a good balance.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#9 Postby Brickulos » Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:26 pm

Here's a first pass at the power sets:

Powers (PP:55/55)
Immortal: Ageless (+1), Very Old (+1) +2
Unflappable: Fearless +2
Crone:
• Attack, Ranged Level 3 (+6), AP 4 (+2), Lethal (-1), Range (+2), RoF +2 (+6) +15
• Awareness +3
• Fear (+2), Terrifying (+2) +4
• Negation (+4), Full Spectrum (+5), Leach (+5), Projectile (+1) +15
• Super Edge: Marksman +2
• Super Shooting Level 4 +4
• Uncanny Reflexes +4
Mother:
• Armor Level 5 (+5), Partial Protection (-1) +4
• Deflection Level 10 (+8), Protector (+2) +10
• Force Control Level 5: d12+4 (+10), Force Field (+3) +13
• Healing (+5), Can’t Heal Self (-2), Cure (+3), Restoration (+2) +10
• Parry Level 10 (+8), Protector (+2) +10
Maiden:
• Attack, Melee Level 2 (+4), Multiple Attacks (+2) Stackable (+2) +8
• Extra Action +3
• Gifted +2
• Regeneration Level 5 (+10), Regrowth (+2) +12
• Speed: Pace 96 (+10), Blinding Reflexes (+2) +12
• Super Agility Level 1 (+2), Not Today (+2) +4
• Super Edge: Imp. Extraction +4
• Super Fighting Level 1 +1
• Stun (+2) Strong (+1), Contingent: Attack, Melee (-2) +1

Let me know what you think.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#10 Postby Freemage » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:15 pm

Brickulos wrote:Here's a first pass at the power sets:

Powers (PP:55/55)
Immortal: Ageless (+1), Very Old (+1) +2
Unflappable: Fearless +2
Crone:
• Attack, Ranged Level 3 (+6), AP 4 (+2), Lethal (-1), Range (+2), RoF +2 (+6) +15
• Awareness +3
• Fear (+2), Terrifying (+2) +4
• Negation (+4), Full Spectrum (+5), Leach (+5), Projectile (+1) +15
• Super Edge: Marksman +2
• Super Shooting Level 4 +4
• Uncanny Reflexes +4
Mother:
• Armor Level 5 (+5), Partial Protection (-1) +4
• Deflection Level 10 (+8), Protector (+2) +10
• Force Control Level 5: d12+4 (+10), Force Field (+3) +13
• Healing (+5), Can’t Heal Self (-2), Cure (+3), Restoration (+2) +10
• Parry Level 10 (+8), Protector (+2) +10
Maiden:
• Attack, Melee Level 2 (+4), Multiple Attacks (+2) Stackable (+2) +8
• Extra Action +3
• Gifted +2
• Regeneration Level 5 (+10), Regrowth (+2) +12
• Speed: Pace 96 (+10), Blinding Reflexes (+2) +12
• Super Agility Level 1 (+2), Not Today (+2) +4
• Super Edge: Imp. Extraction +4
• Super Fighting Level 1 +1
• Stun (+2) Strong (+1), Contingent: Attack, Melee (-2) +1

Let me know what you think.


Love mother and maiden. I'll admit, I'm still personally of a mind to see Crone with Decay, Infection or Poison, rather than Attack, Ranged (heck, given the cost of the Attack, Ranged power, she could possibly get two or even three of those, especially if she dropped Marksman and Super Shooting). Part of it is, I see her power acting indirectly (she 'snips the thread', rather than hurling a bolt of dark energy or whatever). But if you're dead against the darker-aspected powers, then yes, she's solid, too.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#11 Postby Brickulos » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:26 pm

Freemage wrote:
Brickulos wrote:Here's a first pass at the power sets:

Powers (PP:55/55)
Immortal: Ageless (+1), Very Old (+1) +2
Unflappable: Fearless +2
Crone:
• Attack, Ranged Level 3 (+6), AP 4 (+2), Lethal (-1), Range (+2), RoF +2 (+6) +15
• Awareness +3
• Fear (+2), Terrifying (+2) +4
• Negation (+4), Full Spectrum (+5), Leach (+5), Projectile (+1) +15
• Super Edge: Marksman +2
• Super Shooting Level 4 +4
• Uncanny Reflexes +4
Mother:
• Armor Level 5 (+5), Partial Protection (-1) +4
• Deflection Level 10 (+8), Protector (+2) +10
• Force Control Level 5: d12+4 (+10), Force Field (+3) +13
• Healing (+5), Can’t Heal Self (-2), Cure (+3), Restoration (+2) +10
• Parry Level 10 (+8), Protector (+2) +10
Maiden:
• Attack, Melee Level 2 (+4), Multiple Attacks (+2) Stackable (+2) +8
• Extra Action +3
• Gifted +2
• Regeneration Level 5 (+10), Regrowth (+2) +12
• Speed: Pace 96 (+10), Blinding Reflexes (+2) +12
• Super Agility Level 1 (+2), Not Today (+2) +4
• Super Edge: Imp. Extraction +4
• Super Fighting Level 1 +1
• Stun (+2) Strong (+1), Contingent: Attack, Melee (-2) +1

Let me know what you think.


Love mother and maiden. I'll admit, I'm still personally of a mind to see Crone with Decay, Infection or Poison, rather than Attack, Ranged (heck, given the cost of the Attack, Ranged power, she could possibly get two or even three of those, especially if she dropped Marksman and Super Shooting). Part of it is, I see her power acting indirectly (she 'snips the thread', rather than hurling a bolt of dark energy or whatever). But if you're dead against the darker-aspected powers, then yes, she's solid, too.


See, for me, Negation is a solid way to reflect "Snipping Threads", and I've never been impressed Decay. I was going to connect Infection or Poison but then I realized how powerful I could make Negation. And if she's going to be the main offense, the Crone is going to have to be able to throw down some direct damage. The idea of popping off a Negation and then charging in with the Maiden's Attack, Melee seriously makes me happy. Besides, draining your power and lifeforce seems like a pretty dark power.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#12 Postby Freemage » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:53 pm

OKay, so I took a second look at Negation. Yeah, that's scary; I withdraw my objection. That said, I'd suggest removing Uncanny Reflexes--in a Supers game, it feels like that bonus is marginal, since any dedicated shooter is going to overwhelm it, while anyone who isn't dedicated is unlikely to be relying on it. (And most mooks who might be at the level where it's useful are probably already fleeing due to the Fear effect.) I'd say, replace it with Level 2 Super Attribute (Spirit). That'll give her primary attack some extra oomph, and also tie into the whole "Wisdom" aspect.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#13 Postby Brickulos » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:05 am

Freemage wrote:OKay, so I took a second look at Negation. Yeah, that's scary; I withdraw my objection. That said, I'd suggest removing Uncanny Reflexes--in a Supers game, it feels like that bonus is marginal, since any dedicated shooter is going to overwhelm it, while anyone who isn't dedicated is unlikely to be relying on it. (And most mooks who might be at the level where it's useful are probably already fleeing due to the Fear effect.) I'd say, replace it with Level 2 Super Attribute (Spirit). That'll give her primary attack some extra oomph, and also tie into the whole "Wisdom" aspect.


Since a Supers game is the only one in which someone can even have the Uncanny Reflexes, I find it a little funny that you would suggest it isn't worth the points. But I will concede that more Spirit would be a good idea. But it does seem wrong to not give her any defensive abilities at all. Should I just rely on the Maiden's Regeneration and just hope to not die in one round? Not trying to be facetious. What would you suggest?

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#14 Postby Freemage » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:25 am

Brickulos wrote:
Freemage wrote:OKay, so I took a second look at Negation. Yeah, that's scary; I withdraw my objection. That said, I'd suggest removing Uncanny Reflexes--in a Supers game, it feels like that bonus is marginal, since any dedicated shooter is going to overwhelm it, while anyone who isn't dedicated is unlikely to be relying on it. (And most mooks who might be at the level where it's useful are probably already fleeing due to the Fear effect.) I'd say, replace it with Level 2 Super Attribute (Spirit). That'll give her primary attack some extra oomph, and also tie into the whole "Wisdom" aspect.


Since a Supers game is the only one in which someone can even have the Uncanny Reflexes, I find it a little funny that you would suggest it isn't worth the points. But I will concede that more Spirit would be a good idea. But it does seem wrong to not give her any defensive abilities at all. Should I just rely on the Maiden's Regeneration and just hope to not die in one round? Not trying to be facetious. What would you suggest?


"Mother" should be her default mode. Best baseline defense of the trio. Use her while you maneuver into a defensive position with cover, etc. Then switch over to Crone and Negate the biggest threat on the field. Over time, you'll want to get Level-Headed and Imp. Level-Headed. This gives you decent ability to wait until your opponent attacks on round 1 (Mother should be able to survive that), then you take your action and Switch to Crone and counter-attack, then get a decent draw on Round two and hopefully do a follow-up attack and then switch back to Mother--switching can happen before or after your other actions (or even during, if that's necessary, from what I can see), so you can optimize the timing that way.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#15 Postby Brickulos » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:41 am

Freemage wrote:
Brickulos wrote:
Freemage wrote:OKay, so I took a second look at Negation. Yeah, that's scary; I withdraw my objection. That said, I'd suggest removing Uncanny Reflexes--in a Supers game, it feels like that bonus is marginal, since any dedicated shooter is going to overwhelm it, while anyone who isn't dedicated is unlikely to be relying on it. (And most mooks who might be at the level where it's useful are probably already fleeing due to the Fear effect.) I'd say, replace it with Level 2 Super Attribute (Spirit). That'll give her primary attack some extra oomph, and also tie into the whole "Wisdom" aspect.


Since a Supers game is the only one in which someone can even have the Uncanny Reflexes, I find it a little funny that you would suggest it isn't worth the points. But I will concede that more Spirit would be a good idea. But it does seem wrong to not give her any defensive abilities at all. Should I just rely on the Maiden's Regeneration and just hope to not die in one round? Not trying to be facetious. What would you suggest?


"Mother" should be her default mode. Best baseline defense of the trio. Use her while you maneuver into a defensive position with cover, etc. Then switch over to Crone and Negate the biggest threat on the field. Over time, you'll want to get Level-Headed and Imp. Level-Headed. This gives you decent ability to wait until your opponent attacks on round 1 (Mother should be able to survive that), then you take your action and Switch to Crone and counter-attack, then get a decent draw on Round two and hopefully do a follow-up attack and then switch back to Mother--switching can happen before or after your other actions (or even during, if that's necessary, from what I can see), so you can optimize the timing that way.


And the Maiden is for retreat and recovery?

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#16 Postby Freemage » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:25 am

Brickulos wrote:
Freemage wrote:
Brickulos wrote:
Since a Supers game is the only one in which someone can even have the Uncanny Reflexes, I find it a little funny that you would suggest it isn't worth the points. But I will concede that more Spirit would be a good idea. But it does seem wrong to not give her any defensive abilities at all. Should I just rely on the Maiden's Regeneration and just hope to not die in one round? Not trying to be facetious. What would you suggest?


"Mother" should be her default mode. Best baseline defense of the trio. Use her while you maneuver into a defensive position with cover, etc. Then switch over to Crone and Negate the biggest threat on the field. Over time, you'll want to get Level-Headed and Imp. Level-Headed. This gives you decent ability to wait until your opponent attacks on round 1 (Mother should be able to survive that), then you take your action and Switch to Crone and counter-attack, then get a decent draw on Round two and hopefully do a follow-up attack and then switch back to Mother--switching can happen before or after your other actions (or even during, if that's necessary, from what I can see), so you can optimize the timing that way.


And the Maiden is for retreat and recovery?


Yes, and for special circumstances--if you need to get up close and personal with someone, she's the way to go; likewise, anytime the group needs a skill, she's the one to pull out.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#17 Postby Brickulos » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:15 am

Freemage wrote:
Brickulos wrote:
Freemage wrote:
"Mother" should be her default mode. Best baseline defense of the trio. Use her while you maneuver into a defensive position with cover, etc. Then switch over to Crone and Negate the biggest threat on the field. Over time, you'll want to get Level-Headed and Imp. Level-Headed. This gives you decent ability to wait until your opponent attacks on round 1 (Mother should be able to survive that), then you take your action and Switch to Crone and counter-attack, then get a decent draw on Round two and hopefully do a follow-up attack and then switch back to Mother--switching can happen before or after your other actions (or even during, if that's necessary, from what I can see), so you can optimize the timing that way.


And the Maiden is for retreat and recovery?


Yes, and for special circumstances--if you need to get up close and personal with someone, she's the way to go; likewise, anytime the group needs a skill, she's the one to pull out.


Not to be a pedant but this is supposed to be an NPC and quite likely, an enemy.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#18 Postby Freemage » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:21 am

Brickulos wrote:
Freemage wrote:
Brickulos wrote:
And the Maiden is for retreat and recovery?


Yes, and for special circumstances--if you need to get up close and personal with someone, she's the way to go; likewise, anytime the group needs a skill, she's the one to pull out.


Not to be a pedant but this is supposed to be an NPC and quite likely, an enemy.


Ah, right. I'll admit, for NPCs, Gifted is a bit less useful, since the GM can add any ability they want to the skill list, anyway. Still, she can go Maiden anytime the PCs do something that would force her to make a roll unskilled.

So, yes, Maiden is for Retreat and Recovery, and maybe also for getting the jump on the PCs in the first place.

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#19 Postby Brickulos » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:28 am

Freemage wrote:
Brickulos wrote:
Freemage wrote:
Yes, and for special circumstances--if you need to get up close and personal with someone, she's the way to go; likewise, anytime the group needs a skill, she's the one to pull out.


Not to be a pedant but this is supposed to be an NPC and quite likely, an enemy.


Ah, right. I'll admit, for NPCs, Gifted is a bit less useful, since the GM can add any ability they want to the skill list, anyway. Still, she can go Maiden anytime the PCs do something that would force her to make a roll unskilled.

So, yes, Maiden is for Retreat and Recovery, and maybe also for getting the jump on the PCs in the first place.


Can she use her extra action and still have another if she changes powersets mid turn?

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Re: [NE/SPC2] Making a triptych goddess

#20 Postby Freemage » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:11 am

Brickulos wrote:
Freemage wrote:
Brickulos wrote:
Not to be a pedant but this is supposed to be an NPC and quite likely, an enemy.


Ah, right. I'll admit, for NPCs, Gifted is a bit less useful, since the GM can add any ability they want to the skill list, anyway. Still, she can go Maiden anytime the PCs do something that would force her to make a roll unskilled.

So, yes, Maiden is for Retreat and Recovery, and maybe also for getting the jump on the PCs in the first place.


Can she use her extra action and still have another if she changes powersets mid turn?


That should probably go to Clint in the OA Forum, but I suspect the answer would be no--when she changes powersets, the thing that gives her the extra action goes away. Now, that said, by the same token I WOULD say she can take an action as the Crone or the Mother, then switch to the Maiden (free action), permitting her to take an Extra Action using those abilities. So if the heroes move in on her while she's the Crone, she can get off one last shot, switch, and bug out. But as I say, all of that is just personal opinion.


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