Junkers and durability

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Demon
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Junkers and durability

#1 Postby Demon » Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:26 pm

So I have been pondering the concept of reasonable armor degradation, when I came upon information that brought more questions than answers.

When attempting to apply durability to normal armor I looked to Junker armor as a baseline for how much durability a piece of armor should have.

I noticed that Junker devices have very minimal durability.

So my question is, do all items with durability apply damage in the same way as vehicle durability? (I.e. division of damaged based on size and type of weapon.)

This seems the only way that a Junker making personal armor would not have it fall apart the second it was coughed upon.

ValhallaGH
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Re: Junkers and durability

#2 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:57 pm

All things in Classic use one of two damage tracks.
Critters and humanoid things use the Size / Wound mechanics.
Everything else, from vehicles to walls to tables, uses the Durability system, including how damage is divided. They all apply damage in the same way.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Fists-of-Dorn
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Re: Junkers and durability

#3 Postby Fists-of-Dorn » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:20 am

Yes.
Account for armor and then divide for weapon classification (Junker junk-tech item size only determines the item's durability rating, it does nothing else to mitigate damage).

Under the normal rules, Junker armor wouldn't have to worry about damage any more than the basic Kevlar vest- which is how it would survive normally. The only items that normally have to worry about being damaged while used are power armor and vehicles- and vehicles only worry when a passenger in an enclosed portion of it is hit.

So until someone/thing targets a Junker's armor instead of the Junker wearing it, it's safe (though area attacks and massive damage should be considered to have hit both the junker and his gear as it should also be considered for basic gear).


-Fists.

Demon
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Re: Junkers and durability

#4 Postby Demon » Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:52 am

The reason I ask is because I am looking for a reasonable metric for armor degradation. Even with the advancements in the HOE timeframe, if you shoot enough holes in armor it will eventually stop functioning as intended.

ValhallaGH
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Re: Junkers and durability

#5 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:51 am

In that case, you'll want to start with the Power Armor degradation rules. Tweak those to fit how you want them to work, then apply those rules to all body armor.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Fists-of-Dorn
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Re: Junkers and durability

#6 Postby Fists-of-Dorn » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:50 pm

Demon wrote:The reason I ask is because I am looking for a reasonable metric for armor degradation. Even with the advancements in the HOE timeframe, if you shoot enough holes in armor it will eventually stop functioning as intended.


--This got long on me, so fair warning...


Here's the quick and simple method I came up with years ago:

The effectiveness of armor is reduced permanently whenever a wound is taken (i.e. not bought off with Fate Chips).
--Reduce the effectiveness of the armor by a value of (Light Armor -2) per wound taken.
--Whenever Actual Armor is damaged, it is reduced TO Light Armor -2.
------Kevlar Vest AV2: Takes one wound. The Vest's AV is now AV1 and Light AV -2.
------The same vest takes another one wound. This reduces the AV down to AV1.
------Same vest takes a third single wound. AV is now reduced to Light AV -2.
------A fourth single wound to the same vest removes the last vestige of protection (the Light AV -2).

---Vest providing AV2 takes three wounds from a single attack: AV2 reduced three steps --> first step AV1, Light AV -2 --> second step AV1 --> third step AV0, Light AV -2

Something to keep in mind with this is when a single piece of armor provides two protection values the way the basic Kevlar Vest does; providing AV 2 against non-melee attacks and AV 1 against melee attacks. Each value is reduced accordingly whenever the character is wounded in a hit location protected by the vest.

Furthermore you keep track of the hit location damaged for armor that protects multiple locations (Like the Armored Duster if the wearer should be wounded to the left arm and right leg, only those areas should have their effectiveness reduced).

All of this damage is able to be fixed by anyone with the right materials (not specifically the materials peculiar to the armor, but materials which can provide a sufficiently protective patch) and an appropriate Trade aptitude (Blacksmithing', Armorsmithin', or whatever the character has that can legitimately be used to repair the armor in question).
Start the Repair TN at 5 for a single step of damage, and increase the TN one step for every damage step the armor piece has suffered. A success against this TN repairs one lost damage step, and each raise repairs a further step. This consumes resources equal to the number of steps repaired.
Time can be set from 30-90 minutes as a base, increase the base time by one-third to one-half the base time for every step of damage the armor has suffered. Reduce the time needed to repair by 5-10 minutes per raise (these raises are a function in and of themselves, they should not be combined with the ability of raises to repair additional steps of damage).
So regardless of how much the character wants to repair a piece of armor (i.e. he only has enough materials to repair one step of damage to the armor), if the armor is seriously degraded, it is going to take a while to repair. That's just the way it is and gives the player an important decision to make (i.e. repair his armor and risk the slavers moving on, or leap into the fray with compromised armor and rescue some slaves).

So taking the vest from the earlier examples that began at AV2 and was reduced three steps to Light AV -2, the TN is 9 to repair one step of damage and each raise repairs a further step (assuming the character has the sufficient materials to do so).

As for materials, I think it's best to keep it simple and use categories like Junkers do, but slightly more specific- as there is no magic involved, the materials themselves will end up affecting the appearance very dramatically. I.E. using metal strips, leather, and denim to patch a Kevlar vest.

This helps avoid interacting with durability in the same way that Power Armor does, but isn't quite so quick to destroy your armor as the power armor system. I tinkered with the durability system, but it was difficult to find a suitable value to reduce any armor by for each durability step lost due to damage. It becomes particularly difficult when you begin to consider that certain thresholds of real and light armor when combined act as better protection than just the real armor value provided by the undamaged piece of armor- hence why I chose actual AV to be reduced to the minimum Light AV of -2.

For Power Armor I allowed Actual AV to be reduced instead to Light AV -4 initially, then reduced to AV -2, then the next level of Actual AV. This preserves the integrity and durable nature of power armor in my mind better than the rules as written version. And considering the difficulty involved with repairing/replacing pieces of power armor, it makes the life of the player whose character is affected much less stressful (letting them worry about the day-to-day hassles of surviving in the wastes without the constant feeling of "needing" to lug around a huge supply train of parts).



Hope that helps you on your way with your own reworking of the mechanics to better fit your game and style,

-Fists.


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