Savage Star Wars: does it work well?

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Bloodwork
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#81 Postby Bloodwork » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:13 pm

Regarding damage of lightsabers. I think it should stay Str-based for two reasons.
1. There are plenty of examples in the movies of people using physical strength when using lightsabers. Sure, sabers cut through anything easily, that's why they have an insane AP rating. But once you get through the armour, you have to push.

2. Why not let Jedi use Spirit instead of Agility? Surely Palpatine, Dooku and Yoda aren't that agile physically. As a mind trick ability, why not let them use Spirit instead of Persuasion? Fighting? I could go on but once you start down this (dark) path you end up using Spirit and the force for everything and it breaks the game.


Yet another idea for dark side temptation and force points in general is using the Heroic Bennies from the supers book which let you reroll any kind of roll including damage OR add 1d6 (acing) to any roll. This Force Bennie replaces one of your starting Bennies.
Maybe if you are out of Bennies you can call on the dark side and get a free Force Bennie that you keep but it is tainted. You can keep doing this and permanently end up with 3 dark side bennies that act like force bennies.
The way to atone would be to refuse to use any dark side bennies for a certain number of sessions until they change back to regular ones.

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Pariah74
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#82 Postby Pariah74 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:07 am

Yeah, lightsabers should use Str just as a balancing issue if anything else. Rapiers still use strength and anyone that has used one of those can tell you that strength has nothing to do with it.
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#83 Postby rodolfo » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:10 am

Oh! Can somebody link the conversion of John?

The savage heroes link is broken and i dunno why i can't email him

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#84 Postby Sean-Khan » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:21 am

Here: http://home.comcast.net/~max.velocity/maxv_rules.htm

It took me some time to find it too, it was annoying as everyone was talking about it!

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#85 Postby rodolfo » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:20 pm

Oh thanks man! And i gotta keep those notes in mind:

Trooper armor go down to +1, no ap for blasters...

Use that incredibly nice thing of dark side bennies on darth vader cup.

Use the two dies of light and darker side

Has anyone reached a good balance on using at table all the wonderful suggestions made?

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#86 Postby Bloodwork » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:01 pm

I'm watching the movies while working on a conversion and the more I see the more I realise something: as far as powers go, Jedi are all the same.

Initially I thought this was a problem, then I realised that it's actually great. They're not the X-Men. Jedi shouldn't be defined by their powers. In the movies they are different by their skills and personalities. Anakin is a great pilot and mechanic, Yoda is a great fighter, some are more reckless, etc.

This shifts the focus from kewl powerz to roleplaying, which is great as far as I'm concerned.

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#87 Postby herrozerro » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:09 pm

Bloodwork wrote:I'm watching the movies while working on a conversion and the more I see the more I realise something: as far as powers go, Jedi are all the same.

Initially I thought this was a problem, then I realised that it's actually great. They're not the X-Men. Jedi shouldn't be defined by their powers. In the movies they are different by their skills and personalities. Anakin is a great pilot and mechanic, Yoda is a great fighter, some are more reckless, etc.

This shifts the focus from kewl powerz to roleplaying, which is great as far as I'm concerned.


Sorry for the Thread Necro, but I had a similar revelation when watching the clone wars on netflix. Though, most Jedi powers are just enhanced version of skills. Jumping, Fighting, Persuasion, Intimidation. Yes there are some specific powers like lightning that are obviously powers, but perhaps most jedi abilities could just be rolled into skills?

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#88 Postby VonDan » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:12 pm

Could force powers be duplicated with super powers or psychic powers

The trappings for the shield spell could be a light saber block

Force lighting could be blast or fire ball


etc

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#89 Postby sablemage » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:29 pm

herrozerro wrote:Sorry for the Thread Necro, but I had a similar revelation when watching the clone wars on netflix. Though, most Jedi powers are just enhanced version of skills. Jumping, Fighting, Persuasion, Intimidation. Yes there are some specific powers like lightning that are obviously powers, but perhaps most jedi abilities could just be rolled into skills?


I figure most Jedi "powers" are skills, enhanced by Boost/Lower Trait. If you give them Telekinesis as well, you're about done.

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#90 Postby warrenss2 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:03 pm

Okay... I haven't waded through all 5 pages of this place yet, but I wanted to throw out steelbrok's idea of using a "Dark Force" die system.

I think it's a great and easy way to track the strength of the Dark Force in someone. My only difference would be to start is off with no die instead of the d4-2 steelbrok suggests.

Come to the Dark Side!!!
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#91 Postby steelbrok » Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:15 pm

that would work too. IIRc the reason I went for d4-2 instead of no die was so that all force users had some vulnerability to the dark side (albeit very minor)

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#92 Postby VonDan » Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:46 pm

Image

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#93 Postby wheatiess » Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:20 pm

I have been putting together a conversion as well but as it is strewn through about 15 different note books with no sort of organisation along with all my death watch ideas it is in no shape as a finished product.

For the dark side temptation I think it is important that it be tempting, easy, produce immediate benefit but has long term costs and is less rewarding the more it is used.

Alongside normal soak bennies and roleplay bennies I use rage bennies (darkside, emo or whatever you want to call them). A player can take one or more at any time to either reroll or add Dx (size of dice determined by where on the DS/LS scale they are) to any emotional based action. So attack, damage, intimidation, focus power and anything else they can use anger/hate to effect. Doing so gives the gm bennies to use against the group so there is a moral obligation not to use them. And for each one taken the character has -1 to his DS/LS scale

I use a scale from +20 to -20 (+ being light sided and based on rational thinking – being dark sided and based on emotional results). Between +9and -9 the character is neutral and gains no particular benefits but rolls a D8 for his rage dice.

20 or higher_______d12 +2 charisma and focus for LS powers
10 to 19__________d10 +1 charisma and focus for LS powers
9 to -9___________d8
-10 to – 19 _______d6 can’t use rage bennies on lightside powers
-20 or lower______d4 can only use rage bennies on darkside powers/damaging effects

The more of a paragon the character is the more temping it is to use the rage benny. The more the character embraces the darkside the more rage bennies he will need to use to remain at the same power.

So do you forgo the rage bennies to get the light side bonus or do you take the easy way and hurt your party and yourself in the long.

Things that were considered….

Both on one scale means they cancel each other out means you can have the good/bad side bubbling under the surface of the other (ala darth vader sudden redemption flip)

Scale is pretty granular having only 5 regions leading to a few issues.

Was smaller going from 4, 9, 10+ rather than 9, 19, 20+ but stretch it out.

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#94 Postby wheatiess » Sun Mar 16, 2014 9:37 pm

the idea being that if a player misses a roll by about 3 he can give in to his hate and add a rage benny. if he still misses he can add another on top. the more he uses this the further he will go into the dark side and the more he will be become accustomed to passing these rolls. traping him in an addiction to rage where he must use more to get the same result.

many powers have high thresholds and STAR RANGERS end up having high parries. so the use of these bennies may almost be needed in some spots if no setup is done

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#95 Postby Sheriff288 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:08 pm

I have been out of it awhile. I will see what I can do about getting the conversion hosted on a reliable site so the link off savage heroes works.
Visit My Savage Conversions
http://home.mchsi.com/~savagestarwars/

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#96 Postby Jounichi » Sun Apr 13, 2014 11:59 pm

I'd rather keep it simple and have "dark side points" slowly accumulate as you do bad things. Something along the lines of the Sanity mechanic from Rippers (1/2 Spirit +2) should do nicely.

I also happen to think a Force AB should be somewhat along the lines of the elemental Magic AB from 50F. You'd start off in one of the three schools (Control, Sense, or Alter), and unlock additional schools via an Edge as you advance in Rank. Since there's no change in trappings (unlike in 50F), I'd have unlocking a new school also grant a new power.
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Re: Savage Star Wars: does it work well?

#97 Postby Takeda » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:17 am

TEMPTATION: Temptation: anyone who is Ferce Sensitive rolls an additional 'Derk Side' (Wild) Die any time they would roll their Wild Die. The temptation will be to take the Derk Side result when the chips are down.

Every time you use the Derk Side Die result you get a Derk Side point. If your Derk Side points equal your Spirit Die you must make a Spirit trait test with the target being 4 or your current Derk Side Point total (whichever is higher). If you succeed nothing happens, if you get a Raise you actually lose 1-Derk Side Point, if you fail you roll on the Fright Table, if you Botch you add 1/2 of your current Derk Side points (rounded down) to the roll. Every time your Derk Side Points increase and equal or surpass your Spirit Die you roll again. It can spiral very quickly.

Various appropriate hindrances can be switched out for the Phobias that can result such as Bloodthirsty, Mean, Arrogant, Ugly, Elderly (I.E. Palpatine), Lame (as a limb shrivels), Overconfident, etc.

If the result ever comes up: Dead, you've totally gone over to the Dark Side utterly.

Meditating to try to eliminate the taint of the Derk Side is powered by Bennies. You can spend one to try to eliminate some Derk Side points. On a Raise on your Spirit test you eliminate two points, on a success you eliminate one point, on a failure nothing, on a Botch you gain a Derk Side point as you gave into doubt or anger, etc. The target number as always is 4 or equal to the total Derk Side points you are carrying (whichever is higher). Obviously using the Derk Side Die to help in meditating to reduce your Dark Side points would be foolish in the extreme.

Pallor of the Derk Side ( or simply: Uncharismatic) could be one of the switched-out Hindrances. Derksiders would consider it a +2 Charisma but all others -2.

Yes this means you can carry some Derk Side Points as your career progresses, but never without the danger of it consuming you wholly!

Mece Wendu must have Grandmaster Spirit of d12+2 and/or Iron Will, or perhaps a Heroic/Legendary Edge that makes him blind to the temptation of the Derk Side.

Now how else those Derk Side points might affect Ferce Users: it could impose a -1 on all Light Ferce-associated powers once they have 1/2 of their Spirit in Derk Side points and -2 when it equals or surpasses it.

If a Seth were to try using a Light Ferce power they would have a net -2 penalty unless they were to lower their Derk Side points to 1/2 of their Spirit die. If their Derk-side points are less than half their Spirit die this penalty drops to -1 and if their Derk Side points are at zero they have no penalty.

So what makes you a Jede or a Seth is based upon which kind of powers you're most familiar with. If you're going to pull off a Ferce Choke if you're a Jede it will be at -2 and give you a Derk Side point … if you take the Derk Side die which is unaffected by that -2 penalty! Temptation!

So what's the point in being a Seth … you get to choose between the two Wild Die but you only have to test your Spirit on the Fright table once every time your Derk Side points equals a multiple of your Spirit. You have accepted the Derk Side into your heart. You begin play with Derk Side Points equal to your Spirit but as it goes up, and it will, the consequences are much less. The roll is not penalized but the TN is 6 or your Spirit die, whichever is less and penalty to the roll is how many Multiples of your Spirit your Derk Side points are less one. So if you have Spirit d8 you have 8 Derk Side points but don't have to check until 16-Derk Side points where you have a net modifier of -1 (2 less 1). Sith and other Derksiders burn bright, but they don't flash out immediately.

The Danger of the Derk Side is that you are channeling power of the Ferce and the Derk Side is easier, but less controlled. As you are focusing the direction of your will along channels of Emotion in your mind it can be inflamed and given more power from emotions themselves but not without a cost. Focusing along these channels caused damage, it sears in certain aspects of the emotional power into the mind, it changes the user of the Ferce to better reflect how the power is used. Rage, Anger, Contempt, Loss, Doubt, Fear, Love, are all emotions that can lead a person to kill another. This passion to overcome at any cost is what drives the Derk Side. Always using those same neural pathways to power and boost the Ferce burns out some of the circuitry in the user. It causes psychological damage that can in a force user cause physical damage as well.

A Ferce user who uses their calm intellect to focus their use of the Force without allowing passion to cause it to burn so hot will remain untouched by their use of the Ferce.

I see it this way. The Ferce permeates everything … imagine it as a powerful but violative fuel. The Jede use it very carefully with calm determination. While the Seth try it on everything, burning themselves and others along the way. Playing with fire you're going to be burnt. Some still choose to 'play' with fire, it burns for them as it burns them as well.
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