[Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

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binder
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[Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#1 Postby binder » Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:59 pm

Hi All,

A few years back I was working on an official licensed Savage Worlds version of Darrin Drader's Reign of Discordia setting (originally published in True20 and Traveller editions by Gun Metal Games). While that didn't work out, Darrin has recently opened the background up for use in any game and has kindly allowed me permission to release the SW conversion as a fan product.

As such I've distilled all the material down to the core mechanics (where possible), and have attempted to follow PEG's very kind Fan License rules. However, before I let it run free in the wild, I'd be keen on someone(s) with a bit of recent SW knowledge taking a look see at it to ensure that I a) haven't overstepped the mark in the rules and b) it all makes sense (as I said I've truncated a 50,000 word draft down to a 12,000 word, rules-only version).

Anyone keen?

Marcus
Flying the Sundered Skies at – http://inthesunderedskies.blogspot.co.nz/

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#2 Postby binder » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:44 pm

Despite the lack of responses from the forum (and who would blame you), I've released a first draft of the conversion document up on the IP owners site (see here - http://darrindrader.com/index.php/reign-of-discordia/ - you'll need to scroll the bottom). Still some outstanding with the piece, but we'll get there.

Marcus
Flying the Sundered Skies at – http://inthesunderedskies.blogspot.co.nz/

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#3 Postby kronovan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:55 pm

Awesome stuff binder!

I ran a lengthy T20 RoD campaign that was set in the frontier zone of the Galaxy. I really like the setting and would like to help out. My RPG reading & creating time is currently being consumed by the cyberpunk rules I'm brewing up for my son's Firefly-Cortex+ campaign (yes it sounds weird, but Chrome Wranglers & Rustlers out on the Rim can be fun 8) ), but I'll definitely dive in on your RoD adaptation when I'm done - should be finished this weekend. I had to do a fair amount of tweaking of the ships in the T20 edition, so I'm imagining that's something that will benefit from a SWD edition with the more fleshed out rules in the SFC.

[Edit] Sorry I missed your earlier post, I would have responded immediately if I'd noticed it. And rest assured there's some fans of the setting in my neck of the woods that will very much appreciate / eat up a SWD adaptation. BTW I have a 11x17 uniform PDF of the Galaxy that I seamed together in PS from the 4 map pages in the setting PDF. I also overlaid it with a 40 LY grid in CC3. If it's of any use to you, just let me know.

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#4 Postby binder » Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:00 pm

kronovan wrote:[Edit] Sorry I missed your earlier post, I would have responded immediately if I'd noticed it. And rest assured there's some fans of the setting in my neck of the woods that will very much appreciate / eat up a SWD adaptation. BTW I have a 11x17 uniform PDF of the Galaxy that I seamed together in PS from the 4 map pages in the setting PDF. I also overlaid it with a 40 LY grid in CC3. If it's of any use to you, just let me know.


Hi Korovan,

Thanks for the kind words. The conversion is still a work in progress, but I'm pretty happy with what I have so far! In regards to the map, I'd be really keen at taking a look, you can send them to my email if you're able... stormbringerrpg at gmail.com.

Cheers!

Marcus
Flying the Sundered Skies at – http://inthesunderedskies.blogspot.co.nz/

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#5 Postby kronovan » Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:50 pm

binder wrote:In regards to the map, I'd be really keen at taking a look, you can send them to my email if you're able... stormbringerrpg at gmail.com.

Cheers!

Marcus


OK, map sent your way. I've had a chance to give the document a brief browse and like what I see, but I won't be able to give much constructive feedback until I've given it a more thorough read.

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#6 Postby kronovan » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:26 am

Hey Marcus

I read through the races and I really like the varied and distinct abilities that differentiate them. I checked their build point values and for the most part they seem decently balanced ranging from 1 -to- 3 points. The Creeon and Sangor are notably superior though, with the Creeon costing in at 6 and the Sangor at 4 points. The Creeon's construct ability is the big factor, as based upon the latest race creation rules in the SciFi Companions, that ability costs +8 points; used to be only +2 in SWD. The big point consumer for the Sangor is the 6 limbs which allow for 2 additional actions without MAP. A single extra action without MAP is costed at +3 points in the SFC, so that feature of the Sangor adds +6. As well, with the Lamogos and Arnoct both amounting to +1 builds, they could probably use a little bit of love. Sorry, I can't recall the details of the backgrounds from RoD True20 well enough to make any suggestions.

A question I have is, what's the scope or goal of the SWD adaptation in terms of the extent to which it implements content in the True20 or Travelers editions; i.e. is it the intent, or assumption, that the GM would have purchased one of those other 2 setting guides for a more detailed reference? I ask because IMO if the adaptation will assume no prior knowledge or purchase, some flavor text for the different races should be included. The adaptation also gives me the impression that it's assuming only ownership of SWD; I could have just misread that though. If it doesn't assume ownership of the SFC, IMO the adaptation should at least reference it as it represents a more up to date benchmark for some of the rules - especially race creation. With the little it costs to own both SWD and the SFC, IMO it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume GM's had both.

Anyhow, more later.

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#7 Postby binder » Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:46 pm

kronovan wrote:I read through the races and I really like the varied and distinct abilities that differentiate them. I checked their build point values and for the most part they seem decently balanced ranging from 1 -to- 3 points. The Creeon and Sangor are notably superior though, with the Creeon costing in at 6 and the Sangor at 4 points. The Creeon's construct ability is the big factor, as based upon the latest race creation rules in the SciFi Companions, that ability costs +8 points; used to be only +2 in SWD. The big point consumer for the Sangor is the 6 limbs which allow for 2 additional actions without MAP. A single extra action without MAP is costed at +3 points in the SFC, so that feature of the Sangor adds +6. As well, with the Lamogos and Arnoct both amounting to +1 builds, they could probably use a little bit of love. Sorry, I can't recall the details of the backgrounds from RoD True20 well enough to make any suggestions.


Interested to hear that the costs have changed in the SFC, I thought they were pretty balanced previously. I'lll take a look see. To be honest I wasn't too focused on balancing out the races, as I was really focused on the fluff and how that reflects on the races. as you point out, some of the system mechanics results in an unbalanced but I think I'm happy with the non mechanical balance. Who wants to be an alien in a universe dominated by humans and blue humans :P

kronovan wrote:A question I have is, what's the scope or goal of the SWD adaptation in terms of the extent to which it implements content in the True20 or Travelers editions; i.e. is it the intent, or assumption, that the GM would have purchased one of those other 2 setting guides for a more detailed reference? I ask because IMO if the adaptation will assume no prior knowledge or purchase, some flavor text for the different races should be included. The adaptation also gives me the impression that it's assuming only ownership of SWD; I could have just misread that though. If it doesn't assume ownership of the SFC, IMO the adaptation should at least reference it as it represents a more up to date benchmark for some of the rules - especially race creation. With the little it costs to own both SWD and the SFC, IMO it wouldn't be unrealistic to assume GM's had both.


The conversion does expect that you have access to the source material (in fact this is part of the arrangement with IP owner). He has made it all free on his site (which I'm trying to encourage him to update and make a little easier to use :P)

As for the ownership of SFC? I don't think I actually used it, rather an older version done by Wiggy Wade Williams for some other setting? Slipstream? This is the problem of finally completing stuff you start half a decade before :P I'll look to add a note in this regard...

Thanks again for all your feedback, happy to hear it and more!

Marcus
Flying the Sundered Skies at – http://inthesunderedskies.blogspot.co.nz/

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#8 Postby kronovan » Mon Apr 24, 2017 12:19 pm

binder wrote:
kronovan wrote:I read through the races and I really like the varied and distinct abilities that differentiate them. I checked their build point values and for the most part they seem decently balanced ranging from 1 -to- 3 points. The Creeon and Sangor are notably superior though, with the Creeon costing in at 6 and the Sangor at 4 points. The Creeon's construct ability is the big factor, as based upon the latest race creation rules in the SciFi Companions, that ability costs +8 points; used to be only +2 in SWD. The big point consumer for the Sangor is the 6 limbs which allow for 2 additional actions without MAP. A single extra action without MAP is costed at +3 points in the SFC, so that feature of the Sangor adds +6. As well, with the Lamogos and Arnoct both amounting to +1 builds, they could probably use a little bit of love. Sorry, I can't recall the details of the backgrounds from RoD True20 well enough to make any suggestions.


Interested to hear that the costs have changed in the SFC, I thought they were pretty balanced previously. I'lll take a look see. To be honest I wasn't too focused on balancing out the races, as I was really focused on the fluff and how that reflects on the races. as you point out, some of the system mechanics results in an unbalanced but I think I'm happy with the non mechanical balance. Who wants to be an alien in a universe dominated by humans and blue humans :P


The first time I read that Construct was now tripled for cost I was taken aback a bit, but I do applaud Pinnacle for making that change. Construct grants the equivalent of these abilities: Immune to Poison or Disease x 2 [+2] (due to being immune to both poison and disease), Semi Aquatic [+1] + Environmental Resistance[air][+1] (because they don't need to breath), and their +2 to recover from being shaken more or less equates to a Skill Bonus [+2] for a total of [+6]. They do require Repair Vs Heal, but I've never treated that as a penalty in SciFi settings, because such skilled PCs & Extras are typically as common as healers. There is now a negative Dependency [-2] ability to counter Construct.

For sure you can allow some race imbalance in the name of flavor and variety without breaking game balance. Whenever I've built races I've allowed as much as 2 points of variance. That said, IMO the Creeon at +6 and Sangor at +4 skirt beyond that to the extent that they could very well bias player choices during character creation. I see these potential problems with race balance that exceeds more than 2 points;

  • Ending up with a majority of the party with one given, more capable race, when a campaign might very well call for diversity. That can also lead to a sense of characters being too similar, which already is a criticism that's often leveled at SWD.
  • If players take the max of 1 major+2 minor hindrances at character creation for 2 extra edges, any race that already has a high + build rating can become overly capable. It's more exasperated when the race doesn't have innate hindrances - IMO your Creeon fits that.
  • Some players playing less gifted races may become frustrated with a PC that's less capable (yeah I guess you could call it PC envy :D .) Even worse, that tends to be more prevalent at the beginning before characters have advanced - a time IME when player drop-out can be higher.

I'm not that familiar with Creeons, because they weren't in the True20 edition; I'm assuming they were a race in the Traveler edition. Their balance could be brought more in line quite easily by just giving them the Dependency ability mentioned above, which states this in the SFC:

"The creature must consume or have contact with some sort of relatively common substance."

So if there's any energy source/fuel/food they require to fire all those nice construct abilities, that would get listed for the dependency trapping for a -2. It's also not uncommon for constructs to have some residual shortcoming due to their construction, which can often be expressed by the Quirk(minor) negative ability for a -1 to cost. Some constructs might need to actively seek a means to dry out to avoid rusting from submerging in water, ect. Similarly, Environmental Weakness can also be built in if theirs any Enviro factor they're susceptible to; i.e. a robot construct that generates a lot of heat might not fair so well the hot desert with the sun glaring down. It's a much more steep -4 penalty though, so IMO it needs to be considered with some caution.

The Sangor background for True20 doesn't mention any benefit from its extra limbs at all. That raised some questions by the player playing 1 in my campaign, so my solution was to just to treat it as if it had Two-Weapon fighting and allow for an offhand attack without penalty; about the only situation in T20 where it would be a factor. IMO it wouldn't nerf them too much to do the same with SWD, by just allowing 1 extra action instead of 2. As well, the T20 edition states this for their description;

"Six thin spindly legs and four thin arms protrude from their bodies."

Which to me suggests that only 4 of their limbs are suitable for most actions that would otherwise gain a multi-action penalty. Another possibility is that they may have a Strength Attribute Penalty (-2) when using some of those sets of limbs.

And what about the Relarrans - they have 4 arms too. 8) At least they did in the True20 edition which says this about them;

"They have an exoskeleton, a head, four arms, and two powerful legs."

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Re: [Savage Reign of Discordia - Fan Edition] Reviewers wanted...

#9 Postby SeeleyOne » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:14 pm

Oh cool, I can pull out my Reign of Discordia stuff. I have the T20 version and I remember wishing that it could be Savaged.
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