How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

A forum for discussing anything used to add to your Savage Worlds games; miniatures, terrain, character sheets, or game aides of any type.

Moderators: PEG Jodi, The Moderators

Message
Author
Auzora
Novice
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:30 am

How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#1 Postby Auzora » Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:56 pm

I've been GMing a heavily-tweaked version of Savage Worlds I've come up with for quite some time, now; there are multiple classes you can choose from, and each one gets its own sets of abilities. The Priest class can heal allies, and for each Success and Raise they get with their Arcane roll, that is a Wound taken away from the target. They also have an ability called "Focus", which costs no Mana and regenerates roughly 3 Mana Points on a success. The idea is that you sacrifice a turn to get some Mana back. So during battle, it's not exactly the easiest thing to heal all of your party members super fast.

But let's say after a battle, a lot of the team is still injured. Healing Wounds is supposed to take time, but considering the Priest is able to heal and use the Focus ability, there's nothing stopping them from Focus and Heal spamming outside of combat. My question to all of you is, do you have any ideas as to how I could possibly come up with a way to prevent this? Please let me know, thanks.

SteelDraco
Seasoned
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 12:04 am

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#2 Postby SteelDraco » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:49 am

Well, the most obvious answer would be to not let them regain power points as an action. That essentially takes any and all brakes off of a spellcasting character, especially if you're not using the casting roll modifiers from the No Power Points rules.

Allowing only one healing rolls against a particular set of Wounds makes some sense as well - you only get one roll to do it, and if you don't succeed, that particular healer doesn't get to try again on that target until they've healed naturally (or through the use of the normal Healing skill). Also remember that you have to apply the target's wound modifiers to the caster's skill check.

Also remember the Golden Hour rule - any healing not done within an hour after the injury needs to be healed naturally (or, I think, with the Greater Healing power.) You could adjust that number, so maybe the priest has to use his power within one minute or ten minutes, or it doesn't work.

Honestly at this point you're working with a heavily customized version of the ruleset, so you're kind of wandering off the beaten path here.

Auzora
Novice
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:30 am

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#3 Postby Auzora » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:31 am

SteelDraco wrote:Well, the most obvious answer would be to not let them regain power points as an action. That essentially takes any and all brakes off of a spellcasting character, especially if you're not using the casting roll modifiers from the No Power Points rules.

Allowing only one healing rolls against a particular set of Wounds makes some sense as well - you only get one roll to do it, and if you don't succeed, that particular healer doesn't get to try again on that target until they've healed naturally (or through the use of the normal Healing skill). Also remember that you have to apply the target's wound modifiers to the caster's skill check.

Also remember the Golden Hour rule - any healing not done within an hour after the injury needs to be healed naturally (or, I think, with the Greater Healing power.) You could adjust that number, so maybe the priest has to use his power within one minute or ten minutes, or it doesn't work.

Honestly at this point you're working with a heavily customized version of the ruleset, so you're kind of wandering off the beaten path here.


From what I've seen, the whole mana regen ability seems to be pretty balanced and honestly isn't even used very much in battle (and just FYI, the non-arcane classes have quite a few perks of their own over the mana-using ones, so I wouldn't say the mana-regaining ability is exactly OP), and I do like the idea of healing working every time it's cast (yes, the wound modifiers still apply), but when it's OUTSIDE of battle, that's where I get all the issues.

I think allowing the Golden Hour rule (I actually wasn't aware of it) is a really good fix, because healing during battle can be applied since it's within seconds of a wound occurring, generally, while outside of it, you basically just get one roll. I think that's a really good idea, thanks.

User avatar
Zadmar
Legendary
Posts: 3290
Age: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:59 am
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#4 Postby Zadmar » Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:10 am

I don't think the Golden Hour would make much difference in this case, as there are 600 rounds in an hour, which is plenty of time to spam-heal when you've got effectively unlimited PP.

It might be worth using the SPC approach: a failed Healing roll causes the caster a level of Fatigue, which can only be recovered after an hour has passed (so the player can't just follow up with Succor).
My blog: Savage Stuff. I've also written some free tools and supplements.

Auzora
Novice
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:30 am

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#5 Postby Auzora » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:10 am

Zadmar wrote:I don't think the Golden Hour would make much difference in this case, as there are 600 rounds in an hour, which is plenty of time to spam-heal when you've got effectively unlimited PP.

It might be worth using the SPC approach: a failed Healing roll causes the caster a level of Fatigue, which can only be recovered after an hour has passed (so the player can't just follow up with Succor).


Also a good idea. I'll keep these all in mind.

For some reason, the idea I had was, even though it's the "Golden Hour" rule, I was just thinking players could only be healed once outside of combat... maybe...

User avatar
Zadmar
Legendary
Posts: 3290
Age: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:59 am
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#6 Postby Zadmar » Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:26 am

But then you run into the difficult issue of trying to define "combat", and the metagaming issue of players deliberately delaying (or picking) a fight so that they can heal themselves up.
My blog: Savage Stuff. I've also written some free tools and supplements.

User avatar
Lord Karick
Seasoned
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:37 am
Location: Landsberg, Germany

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#7 Postby Lord Karick » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:49 am

Slow down the time needed for a healing spell to 10 min rather than making it a 1 round effort.

User avatar
Zadmar
Legendary
Posts: 3290
Age: 42
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:59 am
Location: Munich
Contact:

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#8 Postby Zadmar » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:49 pm

Lord Karick wrote:Slow down the time needed for a healing spell to 10 min rather than making it a 1 round effort.

But then you might as well just use the Healing skill instead...
My blog: Savage Stuff. I've also written some free tools and supplements.

Ryche
Veteran
Posts: 611
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:04 pm

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#9 Postby Ryche » Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:26 pm

Zadmar wrote:
Lord Karick wrote:Slow down the time needed for a healing spell to 10 min rather than making it a 1 round effort.

But then you might as well just use the Healing skill instead...

You only get one shot with the healing skill, successful or not. With the power you can attempt it again or use it conjunction with the skill. In 50F it takes 10 minutes and a gallon of water, so it's doable.

Auzora
Novice
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:30 am

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#10 Postby Auzora » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:16 am

Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I've come up with something that I think would help balance this little issue of mine out:

The mana-regenerating ability, regardless of class, will only be allowed to be used once an hour. That along with the Golden Hour Rule will prevent a Priest from Focus and Heal spamming, since, if they're out of mana and a teammate of theirs has been wounded, they can only Heal once and Focus once until the next hour. But since the wounds will be un-curable by then, it wouldn't matter if they regenerated their mana at that point.

User avatar
Other Mike
Seasoned
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:05 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#11 Postby Other Mike » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:11 pm

Auzora wrote:The Priest class can heal allies, and for each Success and Raise they get with their Arcane roll, that is a Wound taken away from the target.


You say "highly tweaked", so I assume you are not using the Healing power as written? The above description does not quite match, and using it as written may solve your problem. Maybe.

Normally, you can heal one wound on a Success, and a second with a Raise. A max of 2 wounds can be healed (same with Heal Skill). You can use the power a second (or more) time, but it has no effect unless the roll is better than the first. Still, only a max of 2 wounds can be healed. And don't forget, that roll is -1 for every wound the target has, as well as the caster.

As for the other side of the equation, I understand why you might want characters to recover power points more quickly ... but maybe you have them recovering too fast? Seems you made a change to this with your last post?
My delusions of grandeur are way bigger than yours!

User avatar
Darq666
Veteran
Posts: 589
Age: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:52 pm
Location: Fountain Hills, Az
Contact:

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#12 Postby Darq666 » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:31 pm

Simplest answer seems to be get rid of "Focus" edge. It seems to be throwing the whole mechanic / control away,

User avatar
Ilina_Young
Veteran
Posts: 677
Age: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:00 pm

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#13 Postby Ilina_Young » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:54 pm

i think i could fix the focus edge for you.


Focus;

as an action consuming a whole turn. you can meditate and clear your thoughts. you recover 5 power points. but you gain a level of Arcane Enervation, Arcane Enervation can only be cured by spending an hour resting per level of Arcane Enervation, but otherwise functions identically to fatigue except that the succor power and similar abilities cannot cure levels of Arcane Enervation. Arcane Enervation and Fatigue Share a Pool.

User avatar
Ilina_Young
Veteran
Posts: 677
Age: 28
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:00 pm

Re: How to Prevent Heal Spamming Outside of Battle?

#14 Postby Ilina_Young » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:13 pm

but even if you didn't want to adopt Arcane Enervation. Savage Worlds isn't a Game of Resource Management like d20 is. i mean, normal bolts, bullets, and arrows i care not if the character spams with reckless abandon during combat. as long as they devote an "Action" to Recovery or Reloading. and i really don't care if PCs can fully heal themselves between fights. you just adjust the opposition to account for the Fact the PCs effectively devoted one companion slot to a self replenishing medical kit. by challenging the party in the areas they are less prepared.

yes, they can heal to full at an accelerated rate between fights. but they still need to be careful with bennies, and even if they had to track reloading time instead of tracking ammo, power points or number of clips. they can still go down to lucky rolls, and that lack of wound penalties balances out with the fact that 1 member of the group is solely dedicated to being a healer and support character. similar scenario to d20. somebody rolls up an Aasimaar Life Oracle and the 5 person party sacrificed 20% of their combat force for the remaining 80% to start every fight at full health. essentially, as a 5 man band, they reduced their Damage output by 20% in combat to gain the promise of a full compliment of hit points in each fight,

effectively, the party didn't gain those additional resources for free. a single player had to Sacrifice their character slot so the rest of the group could have constant healing, whether cleric, wizard or psychic, the fact is, they had to have a player who Sacrificed their PC slot so the group could have a walking self replenishing first aid kit. this is generally something done by reckless parties, where they bully the most timid person into playing the healer, so they can have the healing they need and continue to do their reckless actions they wouldn't be able to perform if they had to worry about wounds or hit points or whatever.


Return to “SW Miniatures, Terrain, and other Game Aides”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest