[Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

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ValhallaGH
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#221 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:36 am

Azuresun wrote:Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it looks like I got the two drawbacks mixed up in my mind at some point, I've rewritten accordingly. As far as I can tell, everything else should add up now. :)

For balance purposes, the Dog Boy Psychic Sense is a +2 racial ability.
Dog Boys have -4 racial drawbacks, +4 defined benefits, and Psychic Sense. Assuming they are a +2 race (they appear to be), math shows that it must be a +2 ability.
Hardy is a (overpriced) +3 ability.

Cool!
Ape: +2
Chimp: +2
Bear: +3/+4 (Size +3, Strong +4, Claws +1, Armor +1, Mutant =2/+3, Pace +1; Minor Hindrance -1, Skills -1, Attribute -2, Physiology -1, Attribute -3, Path -1) - Side note: they can't be psionic but they can be magic? I've got nothing against bear wizards, but anything with Psychic Sense should probably be restricted from being magical.
Small Cat: +2 (should probably shorten the Hindrance list to only two; I'd drop Overconfident, since ambush predators tend towards "flight" when surprised)
Big Cat: +2
Rats: +2. The tail thing is cool but should probably be broken out as a racial edge option, so players don't get confused.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#222 Postby jcobbers » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:51 am

Phasma Felis wrote:
JurneeJakes wrote:I was thinking of an Iconic Framework specific Edge to remedy this:

Unchained Edge
Prerequisite: Shemarrian, Spirit D10, Seasoned (or Veteran?)
The Shemarrian is fully aware that she is an artificial lifeform, and has broken ties to her creator, either through mechanical or electronic means, or through full development of their Neural Intelligence. The character is now able to increase their physical attributes through Advancement or Bionics, and is no longer subject to A.R.C.H.I.E's commands.

Rather than an Edge, should that be a default feature of all Shemarrian PCs? The same way that PC Altara no longer mindlessly serve the Splugorth.

Also, I don't know much about the Shemarrians, but are they supposed to not know that they're robots? How does that work with them being aggressive warriors? You'd think they'd start to wonder the first time they got shot and saw metal instead of meat.


Nope they're specifically programed to ignore discrepancies and act like they believe they are alien cyborgs, that is a cover to fool everyone else. As robots, this programing is their identity. Their creators, Hagan and ARCHIE 3 even created a class of technician Shemarians to repair those damaged in battle, and set up "healing cave" facilities to do the same thing, and occasionally update their programming. So while some of the advanced models might start to really believe they are what they are programed to say they are, all the cultural stuff programmed into them is there to keep them believing it.

There is a whole source book on it from Palladium that covers who and what they really are and what role they take in North America.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#223 Postby JurneeJakes » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:55 am

jcobbers wrote:
Phasma Felis wrote:
JurneeJakes wrote:I was thinking of an Iconic Framework specific Edge to remedy this:

Unchained Edge
Prerequisite: Shemarrian, Spirit D10, Seasoned (or Veteran?)
The Shemarrian is fully aware that she is an artificial lifeform, and has broken ties to her creator, either through mechanical or electronic means, or through full development of their Neural Intelligence. The character is now able to increase their physical attributes through Advancement or Bionics, and is no longer subject to A.R.C.H.I.E's commands.

Rather than an Edge, should that be a default feature of all Shemarrian PCs? The same way that PC Altara no longer mindlessly serve the Splugorth.

Also, I don't know much about the Shemarrians, but are they supposed to not know that they're robots? How does that work with them being aggressive warriors? You'd think they'd start to wonder the first time they got shot and saw metal instead of meat.


Nope they're specifically programed to ignore discrepancies and act like they believe they are alien cyborgs, that is a cover to fool everyone else. As robots, this programing is their identity. Their creators, Hagan and ARCHIE 3 even created a class of technician Shemarians to repair those damaged in battle, and set up "healing cave" facilities to do the same thing, and occasionally update their programming. So while some of the advanced models might start to really believe they are what they are programed to say they are, all the cultural stuff programmed into them is there to keep them believing it.

There is a whole source book on it from Palladium that covers who and what they really are and what role they take in North America.


They also appear to be cyborgs, so seeing a bit of metal under the flesh wouldn't be out of the ordinary. Upon death, these cybernetic components self destruct by melting down, leaving no evidence of being full fledged bots behind.

Essentially, they're a cross between Terminator and Wonder Woman.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#224 Postby JurneeJakes » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:47 am

Shemarrian Warrior Woman

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_YDv ... jkyVmZsVEU

Performed a few updates based on grievences, still working on fluff. Want to get the balance right. Again, I'm not looking for whether you think it's 'boring' or not, that's a matter of player preference. It's an attempt at converting material, and a learning opportunity. I just need someone with more experience with Savage Worlds to help me out.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#225 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:14 pm

JurneeJakes wrote:Shemarrian Warrior Woman

Cool.
The hard-limit physicals is weird, and probably crippling in long term play for what is otherwise a "super soldier" Framework. I'd advise making those uncapped, like the Combat Cyborg, Crazy, Juicer, or Dragon. You don't have to, but that's probably the better choice.
You've included 16 Strain of Bionics. Without any guidance on how that interacts with the character's Max Strain if they become Unchained.
Bionic Claws are a 2 point ability, using the SPC as reference. Just using the D-Bee rules, normal damage claws are 1 point, but making them deal Mega Damage is going to be a custom additional cost.
Not Of This World is a renamed, and oddly weakened, Distinctive D-Bee. NOTW is a -1 ability (essentially Outsider). Distinctive D-Bee (can't hide it) is a -2 ability.
Owned - I'll come back to this. Correct game mechanic.
Amazonian Culture means that they have a conditional -6 Charisma for anyone dealing with them, who is familiar with Shemarrian culture and doesn't like it. Even among D-Bee lovers, that's a huge penalty, and most interactions will have a net Charisma -4. This strongly discourages the character from peaceful interactions with the setting. Pointing that out if you weren't aware of the effect.
No Arcane Connection is just the Restricted Path drawback applied twice. Which would be a -2 racial ability.

Unchained is essentially required if the character is going to be anything other than a temporary ally / guide / traveling companion. A PC Shemarrian is "taxed" to get a d8 Spirit and Unchained at character creation to play the character. And while it may make sense from a fluff approach, it doesn't make sense from a gameplay, fun, or balance approach. The Framework just isn't powerful enough to justify that additional cost of playing.

3 Hero's Journey rolls: roughly one edge each [6 Power Points]
Programmed Warriors: Super Agility three levels, Super Strength two levels, Super Vigor three levels, all with a cannot increase major Limitation [10 Power Points]
Constructs: Construct [8 Power Points]
Bionic Systems: Regeneration one level, Toughness six levels, Speed one level, Heightented Senses five levels, Danger Sense [17 Power Points]
Size +1: Growth with monster [1 Power Points]
Bionic Claws: Attack, Melee one level, heavy weapon, lethal [2 Power Points]
Attractive: edge [2 Power Points]
Exceptional Craftsmanship: ignore a particular Setting Rule for self and default bionics [1 Power Points]
Powered: Ageless [1 Power Points]
Total Cost = [48 Power Points] which is pretty well balanced. This gives a super-soldier on par with a Juicer, but with more limited options and development and some funky story points.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#226 Postby JurneeJakes » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:48 pm

Awesome, thank you. I'll revise.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#227 Postby JurneeJakes » Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:29 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:
JurneeJakes wrote:Shemarrian Warrior Woman

Cool.
The hard-limit physicals is weird, and probably crippling in long term play for what is otherwise a "super soldier" Framework. I'd advise making those uncapped, like the Combat Cyborg, Crazy, Juicer, or Dragon. You don't have to, but that's probably the better choice.


The Hard Limit on Physical Attributes is meant to imply that this is basically an assembly line built bot. Much like all suits of a type or robot armor are generally the same, all Shemarrians are physically the same, with the exception of aesthetic characteristics. If/when a player were to pick up the Unchained Edge, these would become automatically become uncapped with the introduction of new bionics attached the the body.

You've included 16 Strain of Bionics. Without any guidance on how that interacts with the character's Max Strain if they become Unchained.


I've added Upgradeable and Beyond the Limit becoming available once Unchained has been taken.

Bionic Claws are a 2 point ability, using the SPC as reference. Just using the D-Bee rules, normal damage claws are 1 point, but making them deal Mega Damage is going to be a custom additional cost.
Not Of This World is a renamed, and oddly weakened, Distinctive D-Bee. NOTW is a -1 ability (essentially Outsider). Distinctive D-Bee (can't hide it) is a -2 ability.


Thanks for the heads up on the claws. I decided to forego the wrist lasers included in the Palladium version. I figured Not of This World should be -2 because they're eight feet tall and Size 1. Hard to pose as a regular 'human', even though I suppose the antennae could be hidden.

Owned - I'll come back to this. Correct game mechanic.
Amazonian Culture means that they have a conditional -6 Charisma for anyone dealing with them, who is familiar with Shemarrian culture and doesn't like it. Even among D-Bee lovers, that's a huge penalty, and most interactions will have a net Charisma -4. This strongly discourages the character from peaceful interactions with the setting. Pointing that out if you weren't aware of the effect.


All of these hindrances are right out of the Palladium books mentioning Shemarrians. They are not friendly, though they are heroic. Likely to fend off an attack on human villages by aliens or demons, only to then leave without a word.

No Arcane Connection is just the Restricted Path drawback applied twice. Which would be a -2 racial ability.

Unchained is essentially required if the character is going to be anything other than a temporary ally / guide / traveling companion. A PC Shemarrian is "taxed" to get a d8 Spirit and Unchained at character creation to play the character. And while it may make sense from a fluff approach, it doesn't make sense from a gameplay, fun, or balance approach. The Framework just isn't powerful enough to justify that additional cost of playing.


Beating A.R.C.H.I.E's will should be a very rare occurance, and should be reserved for players that are interested in the role playing aspects of either a long journey of discovery, or a treacherous campaign of being hunted down by the Artificial Intelligence itself. Even without Unchained, they don't seem to be combat slouches.

3 Hero's Journey rolls: roughly one edge each [6 Power Points]
Programmed Warriors: Super Agility three levels, Super Strength two levels, Super Vigor three levels, all with a cannot increase major Limitation [10 Power Points]
Constructs: Construct [8 Power Points]
Bionic Systems: Regeneration one level, Toughness six levels, Speed one level, Heightented Senses five levels, Danger Sense [17 Power Points]
Size +1: Growth with monster [1 Power Points]
Bionic Claws: Attack, Melee one level, heavy weapon, lethal [2 Power Points]
Attractive: edge [2 Power Points]
Exceptional Craftsmanship: ignore a particular Setting Rule for self and default bionics [1 Power Points]
Powered: Ageless [1 Power Points]
Total Cost = [48 Power Points] which is pretty well balanced. This gives a super-soldier on par with a Juicer, but with more limited options and development and some funky story points.


Thank you very much for the breakdown. That will help immensely!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_YDv ... W1sSExEVDg

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#228 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:16 pm

JurneeJakes wrote:
Bionic Claws are a 2 point ability, using the SPC as reference. Just using the D-Bee rules, normal damage claws are 1 point, but making them deal Mega Damage is going to be a custom additional cost.
Not Of This World is a renamed, and oddly weakened, Distinctive D-Bee. NOTW is a -1 ability (essentially Outsider). Distinctive D-Bee (can't hide it) is a -2 ability.

Thanks for the heads up on the claws. I decided to forego the wrist lasers included in the Palladium version. I figured Not of This World should be -2 because they're eight feet tall and Size 1. Hard to pose as a regular 'human', even though I suppose the antennae could be hidden.

So give them Distinctive D-Bee, the one where you can't hide your non-human status. Because the current ability is Outsider with descriptive text.
TLPG wrote:Distinctive D-Bee (1): The race is notably inhuman, making it automatically an enemy to the Coalition and loyal citizens thereof. Members of the species suffer a –4 Charisma when dealing with Coalition soldiers, officials, and most citizens, and hostility often leads to violence with the slightest incident. If the race can hide its inhuman features (GM’s call), this is worth –1. If not, this is worth –2.

An existing mechanic that does exactly what you want. 8)

JurneeJakes wrote:
Owned - I'll come back to this. Correct game mechanic.
Amazonian Culture means that they have a conditional -6 Charisma for anyone dealing with them, who is familiar with Shemarrian culture and doesn't like it. Even among D-Bee lovers, that's a huge penalty, and most interactions will have a net Charisma -4. This strongly discourages the character from peaceful interactions with the setting. Pointing that out if you weren't aware of the effect.

All of these hindrances are right out of the Palladium books mentioning Shemarrians. They are not friendly, though they are heroic. Likely to fend off an attack on human villages by aliens or demons, only to then leave without a word.

I'm not criticizing. I'm pointing out the in-play aspect of this combination of game mechanics, and how that is likely to influence anyone playing the character.
Everyone they meet will treat them like a modern person would treat a convicted serial killer or mass murderer that walked up to say hello. There will be lots of nervousness, requests to leave, and calling of armed authorities.
This may be the intended play style. If so, no concern. If not then you should reconsider this combination of game mechanics, possibly using other game mechanics to represent the underlying interaction issues.

JurneeJakes wrote:
Unchained is essentially required if the character is going to be anything other than a temporary ally / guide / traveling companion. A PC Shemarrian is "taxed" to get a d8 Spirit and Unchained at character creation to play the character. And while it may make sense from a fluff approach, it doesn't make sense from a gameplay, fun, or balance approach. The Framework just isn't powerful enough to justify that additional cost of playing.

Beating A.R.C.H.I.E's will should be a very rare occurance, and should be reserved for players that are interested in the role playing aspects of either a long journey of discovery, or a treacherous campaign of being hunted down by the Artificial Intelligence itself. Even without Unchained, they don't seem to be combat slouches.

Slouches they aren't, but they're near their limits for combat effectiveness out of the gate. More importantly, they're enemy spies in the group (unless the entire party is Shemarrians), and despite what movies and novels try to portray that doesn't end well.
Also, thanks to Born A Hero, a starting character can have Unchained. All that "long journey of discovery" can have happened already. Now comes the interesting decision of what to do with this knowledge and freedom. Confront the maker? Free the others? Shrug it off, wander away, and ignore the eastern seaboard? Many interesting options and campaign hooks open up.

Regarding cybernetics. Every Shemarrian is already using 16 Strain. The maximum a character can have is 12, or 18 with Upgradable, or 24 with both Upgradable and Beyond the Limit. Unless you include a special note, every Shemarrian is Incapacitated by Fatigue. :lol:
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#229 Postby JurneeJakes » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:29 pm

Not of This World was meant to be Distinctive D-Bee with flavor text, much like the Grackle Tooth has Stuff Wasn't Built For Me instead of just Unique Physiology. I'll change it.

Shemarrians tend to keep to the Eastern Coast as they are meant to be the first line of defense for A.R.C.H.I.E, so their tendancies shouldn't be well known out of that area. Also, are most Hindrances not able to be bought off with Advances? I seem to recall this is possible in the rule system.

It's true that without the Unchained edge, they are essentially the antagonist party member that often ruins a campaign. But if someone is so inclined and works with the GM, then I'd like to see something viable. If they do choose to sacrifice a lot of character creation options for the Unchained edge out of the gate, then I think they have the opportunity for a lot of character growth.

I'll look at reducing the amount of Strain to 12 points. I wanted to get the majority of their Palladium abilities in the first draft.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#230 Postby Hendell » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:24 am

Much like their ideological and functional counter part the Blind Warrior Women of Altara making Shemarrians a race and or IF usable in the character creation process for PCs (rather than just a stat block like a Foe) should be set up by default to be free from ARCHIE's control, otherwise they aren't PCs at all.

I would suggest building the Shemerrans as two separate things a 'Former ARCHIE bot' race that makes a construct with a few bells and whistles that are common to the significant majority of ARCHIE's bots. and a Shemerrian IF which functions much like the combat cyborg in that it hands out a bunch of upgrades of the core form tosses in some of their style quirks, and a few setting appropriate custom advantages and pieces of gear (such as a smaller than normal medium rail gun that may or may not exchange its ROF for a slight range and or damage boost).
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#231 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:56 am

JurneeJakes wrote:Also, are most Hindrances not able to be bought off with Advances? I seem to recall this is possible in the rule system.

Not racial stuff. Those are part of the price of being that race.
Personal Hindrances can usually be exchanged when they stop making sense, and sometimes bought off if circumstances justify it.

JurneeJakes wrote:I'll look at reducing the amount of Strain to 12 points. I wanted to get the majority of their Palladium abilities in the first draft.

You'd probably be better served giving them an ability like "Total Conversion: Becoming a Combat Cyborg uses all of a character’s personal Strain ever. They start with only the 6 Strain from the Upgradable Edge and can only gain more from the Beyond the Limit Edge." Just give them the cybernetics they should have, and note that they've used up all personal Strain, and if they want more Max Strain for customization then they'll need to take Upgradable and Beyond the Limit.


Hendell, thank you for saying, clearly and concisely, what I've failed to say for two pages.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#232 Postby JurneeJakes » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:53 pm

Has anyone attempted to convert the Temporal OCCs from the England book? I imagine most of the issues would be in the Trappings, dealing with Time/Space manipulation, but I'm curious if anyone has come up with the effects of such trappings. They seem to have a lot in common with typical Leyline walkers, but some added abilities that should be exclusive to the Temporal Wizard/Raider/Warrior.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#233 Postby Phasma Felis » Fri Apr 07, 2017 1:14 am

JurneeJakes wrote:Also, are most Hindrances not able to be bought off with Advances? I seem to recall this is possible in the rule system.

By the core rules, only a few specific Hindrances (Enemy, Habit) can be bought off (after the enemy is defeated, or you're forced to go cold turkey). It's certainly reasonable for a GM to allow players to buy off other Hindrances with appropriate roleplaying, but removing a racial hindrance would require extreme measures at best.


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