[Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

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Hendell
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#181 Postby Hendell » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:26 am

The objective behind making the Pixie regenerate Power Points faster than normal is to allow them to fulfill one of their unique abilities in the setting, one that is key to the social dynamic of how several factions interact, by being used as the primary component in making PPE batteries. If there was a way to take variable edges in the race creation system without using other books I would do something like that, but if it exists I can not find it.

The balance of size and toughness is something that looks complex on the surface but also fits with the 'equivalent to body armor' theme, the MDC or not is almost a moot point I just thought it was a nice touch to emphasize their supernatural nature rather than just being another mostly human race with a few odd physical features.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#182 Postby Phasma Felis » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:06 am

Hendell wrote:The objective behind making the Pixie regenerate Power Points faster than normal is to allow them to fulfill one of their unique abilities in the setting, one that is key to the social dynamic of how several factions interact, by being used as the primary component in making PPE batteries. If there was a way to take variable edges in the race creation system without using other books I would do something like that, but if it exists I can not find it.

There is! On page 48, under Custom Races, it says "If you want to create a new ability, simply assign it a value based on the examples that follow." :)

Seriously, though, "Variable Edge" is something I just made up, but it's really just a special case of Adaptable. If you wind up with an Edge, that's worth 2 points, regardless of which Edge or how it's chosen. Call the ability "PPE Battery" or whatever, and you're good to go.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#183 Postby LaminatorX » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:12 am

Phasma Felis wrote:
Hendell wrote:1 : Armor (1) +2 MDC

I dunno much about Palladium pixies in particular, but giving them MDC seems a bit much unless they're meant to be *really* tough, in which case they should also get a commensurate armor/toughness boost. Generally, anything less tough than power armor shouldn't be MDC.
Freemage wrote:Racial Edges must have the prerequisite Edges. You'd need Rapid Recharge and Improved Rapid Recharge in order to get Exceptional Rapid Recharge--and also an Arcane Background. So that's another 6 points in Edges before that becomes remotely legal. I'd say ditch it entirely, take the Power Points Racial ability or the Power Points Edge (depending on whether or not they can choose what function the points can be used for).

Racial Edges don't generally have to meet the prereqs, so Arcane Background isn't strictly needed (though you won't get any use out of Rapid Recharge without it). Racials do generally have to respect Edge chains, so yeah, you can't jump straight to Exceptional Rapid Recharge. I agree that the Power Points racial (or Natural Arcane Affinity, as the D'Norr entry calls it) would probably be better; it at least lets you power techno-wizard devices without an AB. (Or maybe a variable ability? +5 PPE if you don't otherwise have any, Rapid Recharge instead if you do.)


The Simvan's "Natural Psionics" package is a good point of reference. They get Arcane Background:Psionics (with Beast Friend as a required power selection) and +5 ISP, that's the race-defined (as opposed to Adaptable) "Edge" and "Power Points" race options. However, if they take an Iconic Framework that includes Arcane Background:Psionics, they still get +5 ISP but get New Power:Beast Friend as their race-standard Edge instead of Arcane Background:Psionics. It's still the same two race-build options either way.

So if all Brownies can turn Invisible (I don't have Conversion Book I handy, but let's say they do for the sake of example), you could do something like:
Naturally Magical
Brownies start with the Arcane Background (Magic) Edge. Invisibility must be one of their first chosen powers. They start with 15 PPE instead of 10, and possess the Rapid Recharge Edge. If a Brownie chooses an Iconic Framework providing Arcane Background (Magic), s/he follows all the normal rules for the Framework except s/he gains Invisibility as a bonus power and gains +5 PPE in addition to what the Framework normally provides. If the Iconic Framework includes the Rapid Recharge Edge, the Brownie gets Improved Rapid Recharge.

That's two race-defined Edge options and the Power Points race option for six race-building points either way, redundant bonus Edges where race & IF overlap just get swapped for thematically appropriate alternatives just like the Simvan does.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#184 Postby Sitting Duck » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:55 pm

jcobbers wrote:
Phasma Felis wrote:
Hendell wrote:1 : Armor (1) +2 MDC

I dunno much about Palladium pixies in particular, but giving them MDC seems a bit much unless they're meant to be *really* tough, in which case they should also get a commensurate armor/toughness boost. Generally, anything less tough than power armor shouldn't be MDC.


In original Rifts almost all magic creatures are MDC, including Fairies; and Pixies are fairies, and their stats do in fact reflect them as MDC in that setting. However, most fairy folk have less than 100 MDC, putting them on par with Rifts MDC Body Armors. I think only the Willow-o-the-wisp has several hundred MDC largely because it inhabits a tree. FOr a SR conversion some of the bigger and meaner fairies might be appropriate to give a few points of SR MDC as they tend to have higher MDC in the original setting as compared to the more gentle varieties like pixies.
IMHO most fairies like pixies, should have a natural toughness and armor on par with SR body armor to keep the parity represented in the original setting.


Point of order. In deciding whether or not something is MDC in Savage Rifts, the writers went with the, "If it quacks like a tank," principle. Faerie folk decidedly don't quack like a tank. Perhaps you could give them a Density special ability, where they gain the benefits of being small, but don't suffer the Toughness reduction.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#185 Postby Freemage » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:08 pm

Sitting Duck wrote:
jcobbers wrote:
Phasma Felis wrote:I dunno much about Palladium pixies in particular, but giving them MDC seems a bit much unless they're meant to be *really* tough, in which case they should also get a commensurate armor/toughness boost. Generally, anything less tough than power armor shouldn't be MDC.


In original Rifts almost all magic creatures are MDC, including Fairies; and Pixies are fairies, and their stats do in fact reflect them as MDC in that setting. However, most fairy folk have less than 100 MDC, putting them on par with Rifts MDC Body Armors. I think only the Willow-o-the-wisp has several hundred MDC largely because it inhabits a tree. FOr a SR conversion some of the bigger and meaner fairies might be appropriate to give a few points of SR MDC as they tend to have higher MDC in the original setting as compared to the more gentle varieties like pixies.
IMHO most fairies like pixies, should have a natural toughness and armor on par with SR body armor to keep the parity represented in the original setting.


Point of order. In deciding whether or not something is MDC in Savage Rifts, the writers went with the, "If it quacks like a tank," principle. Faerie folk decidedly don't quack like a tank. Perhaps you could give them a Density special ability, where they gain the benefits of being small, but don't suffer the Toughness reduction.

That's the approach I used in my post above--Dense and Diminutive works out to a 3-point Superpower when it's always on.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#186 Postby pkitty » Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:10 pm

I've been borrowing and reading older Rifts books, and one D-Bee race that I really enjoyed were the Dramins. At first I figured they were going to be a silly goth stereotype -- ashen skin, jet black eyes, a solipsistic belief that life isn't real, etc. -- but I liked that it instead made them want to find and pursue the right path in life.

So I've converted them here, and I'd love any feedback:

http://peekitty.livejournal.com/44484.html

EDIT: I'm mainly hoping for feedback from those familiar with the Dramin, as I'm converting an existing D-Bee race, not inventing a new one.
Last edited by pkitty on Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#187 Postby Phasma Felis » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:56 pm

pkitty wrote:I've been borrowing and reading older Rifts books, and one D-Bee race that I really enjoyed were the Dramins. At first I figured they were going to be a silly goth stereotype -- ashen skin, jet black eyes, a solipsistic belief that life isn't real, etc. -- but I liked that it instead made them want to find and pursue the right path in life.

So I've converted them here, and I'd love any feedback:

http://peekitty.livejournal.com/44484.html

It's an interesting idea, and could be fun to roleplay. I find it a little difficult to imagine people that don't really believe in other people having enough of a shared culture to propagate that belief. Why bother carefully explaining your worldview to your kids if your kids aren't real? It could be genetic, I suppose, but I can't imagine why. Sentient tool-users are social creatures almost by definition, and a trait that strongly discourages social bonds is pretty maladaptive.

I think some more discussion of what they consider "the right path in life" might be helpful. You say you like how their solipsism isn't stereotypical, but there's nothing in the writeup to indicate that.

Also, seeing through illusions is kind of weird as a consequence of solipsism. If anything I'd expect the opposite; hard reality is just as much an illusion as a spell or hologram. I know you're probably just converting the Palladium stuff, but it stuck out at me.

Oh, they should probably have "Distinctive D-Bee" at -1. :)

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#188 Postby pkitty » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:38 pm

Phasma Felis wrote:It's an interesting idea, and could be fun to roleplay. I find it a little difficult to imagine people that don't really believe in other people having enough of a shared culture to propagate that belief. Why bother carefully explaining your worldview to your kids if your kids aren't real? It could be genetic, I suppose, but I can't imagine why.

When I read the original Rifts description of the Dramins, I took it to be genetic, yes. Their brains are just born like that. (Does it make a lot of sense? Maybe not, but this is Rifts.)

I think some more discussion of what they consider "the right path in life" might be helpful. You say you like how their solipsism isn't stereotypical, but there's nothing in the writeup to indicate that.


Right, because I don't want to get a C&D from Palladium! What you see is the most that I'm comfortable writing myself. Please refer to Rifts Worldbook 30: D-Bees of North America for all the detail you ask for and more.

Also, seeing through illusions is kind of weird as a consequence of solipsism. If anything I'd expect the opposite; hard reality is just as much an illusion as a spell or hologram. I know you're probably just converting the Palladium stuff, but it stuck out at me.


Yes, this is an ability they have in Palladium Rifts.

Oh, they should probably have "Distinctive D-Bee" at -1. :)


I considered this, but their artwork looks almost identical to a human, and the writeup implies that any hate they get is due to their worldview. Basically, I think most people will just see them the same as they do Psi-Stalkers (who lack that Hindrance). I'm still open to having my mind changed here, though.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#189 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:04 am

Something one of my players and I worked up for his most recent character.

Godborn D-Bee (+2):
Strength +2 steps (+4)
Vigor +1 step (+2)
Additional Action: faster than mortal men (+3)
Size +2: body on divine scale (+2)
Charisma +1: godly aura (+1)
Distinctive D-Bee: 10' tall glowing demigod (-2)
Non-Standard Physiology: heroic Greek statue, slightly skewed proportions (-1)
Dependency: prayer and ceremony to maintain divine powers (-2)
Major Hindrance - Heroic or Bloodthirsty: you can't escape your heritage (-2)
Clueless: born on a different world (-2)
Restricted Path: cannot use psionics (-1)

It's been working really well.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#190 Postby Deskepticon » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:19 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Something one of my players and I worked up for his most recent character.

Godborn D-Bee (+2):
Strength +2 steps (+4)
Vigor +1 step (+2)
Additional Action: faster than mortal men (+3)
Size +2: body on divine scale (+2)
Charisma +1: godly aura (+1)
Distinctive D-Bee: 10' tall glowing demigod (-2)
Non-Standard Physiology: heroic Greek statue, slightly skewed proportions (-1)
Dependency: prayer and ceremony to maintain divine powers (-2)
Major Hindrance - Heroic or Bloodthirsty: you can't escape your heritage (-2)
Clueless: born on a different world (-2)
Restricted Path: cannot use psionics (-1)

It's been working really well.


So it's at +4?
Look cool, btw! Is it from Olympus or something?

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#191 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:08 pm

Nope, it's a +2 race, just like humans. The "Godborn D-Bee (+2)" is a name and summary. It's got +12 benefits and -10 drawbacks.

My player built an earlier version using the D-Bee creation rules, we went back and forth a bit, and that was the final result.
It's worked very well in play. He went with a M.A.R.S. Vagrant, augmented with Arcane Background (Super Powers), using quickness, smite, and a third power. As a replacement character, it has more than the basic experience, but is hanging nicely with the Dragon, Cyber Knights, and Combat Cyborg that have been around since the beginning of the campaign.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#192 Postby Deskepticon » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:23 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Nope, it's a +2 race, just like humans. The "Godborn D-Bee (+2)" is a name and summary. It's got +12 benefits and -10 drawbacks.


My mistake. I see that now. I was originally reading Godborn D-bee as a custom racial ability.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#193 Postby Phasma Felis » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:33 am

pkitty wrote:Right, because I don't want to get a C&D from Palladium! What you see is the most that I'm comfortable writing myself. Please refer to Rifts Worldbook 30: D-Bees of North America for all the detail you ask for and more.

Oh geez, man.

Copyright is damned murky and confusing, but I promise that summarizing a few paragraphs from a book in your own words, with credit given, is not infringement. Pinnacle may prefer you host it offsite and link it, I dunno, but that's a different issue. Even Palladium at their most viciously litigious never went that far. It'd be illegal to write book reviews.

I don't mean to be hostile, and I'm certainly not demanding that you post more; by all means do whatever you're comfortable with. I just don't like seeing people get snowed by copyright trolls. Don't let those jerks convince you your rights aren't real. :)
Oh, they should probably have "Distinctive D-Bee" at -1. :)

I considered this, but their artwork looks almost identical to a human, and the writeup implies that any hate they get is due to their worldview. Basically, I think most people will just see them the same as they do Psi-Stalkers (who lack that Hindrance). I'm still open to having my mind changed here, though.

Fair enough. My impression is that the average Coalition citizen tolerates Psi-Stalkers not because they're close to normal-looking, but because [s]the TV[/s] Official Doctrine says that the pale bald weirdos are almost like real people and not hellbent demon invaders from another world at all. Quick-Flex look about as human as Psi-Stalkers and still get the full penalty, because they aren't on the Approved Mutants list.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#194 Postby Evil Genius Prime » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:27 am

I know we can't post conversions of actual Rifts D-Bees from the Palladium books, but can we post our own original D-Bee races here?
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#195 Postby SavageGamerGirl » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:11 am

Certainly!
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'Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: 'we're all mad here.'
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#196 Postby pkitty » Wed Feb 22, 2017 4:01 pm

Phasma Felis wrote:
Oh, they should probably have "Distinctive D-Bee" at -1. :)

I considered this, but their artwork looks almost identical to a human, and the writeup implies that any hate they get is due to their worldview. Basically, I think most people will just see them the same as they do Psi-Stalkers (who lack that Hindrance). I'm still open to having my mind changed here, though.

Fair enough. My impression is that the average Coalition citizen tolerates Psi-Stalkers not because they're close to normal-looking, but because [s]the TV[/s] Official Doctrine says that the pale bald weirdos are almost like real people and not hellbent demon invaders from another world at all. Quick-Flex look about as human as Psi-Stalkers and still get the full penalty, because they aren't on the Approved Mutants list.

Hmm, that's a good point, and I agree. That gives them another +1 to spend, so I decided to upgrade the +5 PPE into something a bit more interesting and versatile; let me know what you think.

http://peekitty.livejournal.com/44484.html

Also, I think there was a slight misunderstanding. I'm not saying their solipsism isn't typical, I'm saying that they could have been stereotypical goths, but weren't; instead of being sullen and emo and withdrawn, they're out there exploring the world, trying to figure out what their purpose in it is. I like that.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#197 Postby pkitty » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:47 pm

I realize that we already have Dwarves and Elves in the core SW book, but after reading the Palladium take on those races, I felt that they needed a bit of tweaking. Please let me know what you think:

http://peekitty.livejournal.com/44484.html
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#198 Postby JurneeJakes » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:51 am

Shemarrian for Players

I haven't done the fluff yet, but I'm curious as to what people think of the current mechanics, and I'm open to suggestions.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_YDv ... GNnY21yNnc
Last edited by JurneeJakes on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#199 Postby Hendell » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:11 am

Your version sticks fairly close to the theme of the Shemarrian, or indeed just about any non transferred intelligence robot with a few adjustments.

The question I have is about the breakdown of features, would it be possible to replace the linked version with one that includes the costs of various race features or explanations behind bot upgrades drawn from the Sci Fi Companion?
Last edited by Hendell on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Savage Rifts] The Great D-Bee Race Conversion Thread

#200 Postby Freemage » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:32 am

Heroic and Bloodthirsty is kind of a rough mix--I'd look askance at a "Heroic" character who never took prisoners, no matter what. If they're meant to be perpetually conflicted, that could work, but otherwise it's going to be nigh impossible to thread that needle if they ever fight anything but 'monsters'.

Second: Are the physical attributes frozen just for character creation, or for all time? Ie, they can only ever increase Smarts and Spirit as they advance?


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