[SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

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operations
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[SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#1 Postby operations » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:34 pm

I was a little disappointed to not see this in the book. Anyone do a conversion that I missed?
~~KT~~

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#2 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:14 pm

Not yet.
The guidelines in the Savaging Your Favorite Rifts Ideas supplement should give you enough to do it yourself. (Not having access to the source material, I wouldn't even attempt it.)
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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#3 Postby Severite » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:13 pm

operations wrote:I was a little disappointed to not see this in the book. Anyone do a conversion that I missed?


I would be willing to share my version, however, as I work ridiculous hours/schedule, it will be another week most like before I sit down at my computer at home where all of my conversion/notes, so you may get sick of waiting for my version to be shared.

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#4 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:59 pm

Okay, after some research, it would seem like a Size 1 power armor, with typical protection (+8 M.D.C. and +3 Toughness). Probably give it Cyborg strength.
No mounted weapons, so no issues there.
The signature feature seems to be the jump jets / flight system. The Flight part can probably be lifted from the Falcon 300 Jet Pack, but reduced to two hours.
The Jump Jets are a bit more custom. The basic jumping ability is covered by the existing Jumping rules (1" for free, +1" with successful Strength roll, +1" with running start), possibly with a bonus like the Jump Boost cybernetic. Bouncing along the countryside like a mechanical rabbit is probably going to grant a vehicular Acc/TS, like a robot horse; I'd suggest Acc/TS 15/50, letting it easily keep up with various all-terrain vehicles. Tactical speeds are a different issue - I'd probably give it Pace 8, and the ability to Jump 16" (with 8" vertical) as a free action; effective combat Pace 24 in an open field.

No, I'm not putting that all together in a normal format stat block. Because the T-21 is registered intellectual property, and we can't post conversions on this forum. The above is just spit balling, and I'm still unsure if I should leave it here.
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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#5 Postby Severite » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:11 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:No, I'm not putting that all together in a normal format stat block. Because the T-21 is registered intellectual property, and we can't post conversions on this forum. The above is just spit balling, and I'm still unsure if I should leave it here.


Considering SR is a reimaging of PR, and given the existence of savaging your idea's, with an example not in the TLPG, I find the idea that it wouldn't fall under fair use, to be kinda ludicrous....especially given some of the other things you yourself have given advice on converting. Did I miss an announcement somewhere asking us to stop?

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#6 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:32 pm

You may have forgotten to read the rules.
Notably, "Do not post conversions on the forum of material that is copywritten. Posting the stats for Lou K. Windrunner, Psi Ranger is fine, but not that other guy."
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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#7 Postby Severite » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:43 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:You may have forgotten to read the rules.
Notably, "Do not post conversions on the forum of material that is copywritten. Posting the stats for Lou K. Windrunner, Psi Ranger is fine, but not that other guy."


Hmm, who is Lou K. Windrunner, Psi Ranger supposed to be an approximation to? In any case, how is converting the Shemarrion IF, with stat point breakdowns different? I am confused as to what you are saying is not allowed/is allowed. I didn't post star trek conversions, as SW does not own a license to that material. As a matter of fact, I haven't posted any conversions yet, simply rules that I have/have considered changing, but that is neither here nor there. in any case, I went ahead and made a post in Hey Pinnacle, as one way or the other, it will get to the crux of the matter. I am simply curious as to your reasoning as what makes an allowable conversion.

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#8 Postby ValhallaGH » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:18 pm

Lou K. Windrunner.
Luke Skywalker.
:P They're totally unrelated characters. :roll:

I didn't make the rules, and I don't enforce them. I just try to follow them, and remind my fellow posters about them when it seems relevant.
Short version: If it's not in a Pinnacle book, or something you made up, then put it somewhere else on the internet and link to it here. If it is original, or in a Pinnacle book, then posting it her is (probably) fine.

For the Shemarrian, no one posted a conversion on these forums. Some of the proposed abilities were discussed, including analysis using the Super Powers Companion as a tool of that discussion, but the conversion was always off-site.
Sure, it seems like a trivial technicality, but that's how rules (and laws) work.

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#9 Postby Severite » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:29 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Lou K. Windrunner.
Luke Skywalker.
They're totally unrelated characters. :roll:

For the Shemarrian, no one posted a conversion on these forums but the conversion was always off-site.
Sure, it seems like a trivial technicality, but that's how rules (and laws) work.


I should feel bad I missed that, but I am on hour 15 of wok, so I won't :wink:

Okies. So you totally could convert it, and link to it, I thought you were saying that you couldn't make a stat block at all, as it would break fair use, or be against forum rules, when I have seen clear evidence to the contrary.

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#10 Postby ValhallaGH » Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:22 am

If I presented a conversion on this forum then I'd be violating forum rules.
And honestly, I don't want to go to the trouble of doing a conversion, posting it online, and linking it here.
So, I'll just leave my speculation about how I'd do the conversion. And if that's a problem (i.e. a moderator contacts me) then I'll remove it. But I don't anticipate it being a problem.
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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#11 Postby operations » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:20 pm

This is enough to start on, if I decide we need one in game. Thanks.
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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#12 Postby Phasma Felis » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:17 am

Severite wrote:Considering SR is a reimaging of PR, and given the existence of savaging your idea's, with an example not in the TLPG, I find the idea that it wouldn't fall under fair use, to be kinda ludicrous....especially given some of the other things you yourself have given advice on converting. Did I miss an announcement somewhere asking us to stop?

It is ludicrous, but unfortunately it's in the forum rules. It's annoying but not onerous; you can stick stuff on Google Docs or whatever and link to it.

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#13 Postby Snate56 » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:15 am

It is also not saying that there would actually be any problems, but these rules were set up to minimize any potential problems and, as far as I know, it has been working.



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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#14 Postby Severite » Sun Apr 09, 2017 12:26 pm

Phasma Felis wrote:It is ludicrous, but unfortunately it's in the forum rules. It's annoying but not onerous; you can stick stuff on Google Docs or whatever and link to it.


Eh, I was aware of the rules, the confusion was over a flat statement that providing a stat block was against forum rules, which is a ludicrous statement, given a multiple of reasons, and would be incredibly specifically banned, given the multitude of material already shared. In any case, the poster meant they did not feel like going through the effort of creating a stat block, and sharing it, which I wholeheartedly respect.

And, just to add it in, Pinnacle is much more lenient than Palladium has ever been over unaffiliated third party material, which bans it outright, no mentioning where you can find it, or linking to it. As a matter of fact, some fan sites have received C&D letters over the years, which I thought ValhallaGM was referencing, and stating that Pinnacle was somehow not allowed to have conversions on their boards. Pinnacle owns these boards, it is their right to manage them as they like. 8)

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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#15 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:06 pm

Severite wrote:Eh, I was aware of the rules, the confusion was over a flat statement that providing a stat block was against forum rules,

That is a misreading of the statement. :)
"Because the T-21 is registered intellectual property, and we can't post conversions on this forum."
Rearranged, "We can't post conversion on this forum because the T-21 is registered intellectual property." Which is probably clearer, but it isn't as natural for my writing and speaking styles. :|
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Re: [SR] T-21 Terrain Hopper PA

#16 Postby Phasma Felis » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:42 pm

Severite wrote:
Phasma Felis wrote:It is ludicrous, but unfortunately it's in the forum rules. It's annoying but not onerous; you can stick stuff on Google Docs or whatever and link to it.


Eh, I was aware of the rules, the confusion was over a flat statement that providing a stat block was against forum rules, which is a ludicrous statement, given a multiple of reasons, and would be incredibly specifically banned, given the multitude of material already shared. In any case, the poster meant they did not feel like going through the effort of creating a stat block, and sharing it, which I wholeheartedly respect.

And, just to add it in, Pinnacle is much more lenient than Palladium has ever been over unaffiliated third party material, which bans it outright, no mentioning where you can find it, or linking to it. As a matter of fact, some fan sites have received C&D letters over the years, which I thought ValhallaGM was referencing, and stating that Pinnacle was somehow not allowed to have conversions on their boards. Pinnacle owns these boards, it is their right to manage them as they like. 8)

The rule as it's been applied does, unfortunately, prohibit directly posting full conversions of any copyrighted material. (General discussion of said material is fine.) The rules post was made in 2006, so it's not just about Palladium stuff; there have been other rights-holders that are just as nasty, although most of them got it out of their system around the turn of the millennium once someone explained to them how the internet worked. (Anyone remember Viacom trying to ban all Star Trek fansites in 1996?)

I agree that Pinnacle's policy could be much worse. It's defensive, rather than actively hostile like Palladium's. I still think it's unnecessary on the modern internet--if unauthorized RPG conversions were a major issue, sites like Reddit and 4chan would have been gone long ago. Mostly it just bothers me when people in any industry go out of their way to appease copyright abusers. But there's not a lot of money in the RPG business, and if Pinnacle believes this is necessary to protect their ability to make games for us, I can respect their intentions at least.


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