Bestiary Conversions

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JurneeJakes
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Bestiary Conversions

#1 Postby JurneeJakes » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:12 pm

Anyone have any tips on upgrading other settings Bestiary books to be RIFTS compatible, similar to how an Adult Dragon in the Fantasy setting in hardly a match for a Dragon Hatchling in RIFTS? Has someone come up with a basic template for this?

ValhallaGH
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#2 Postby ValhallaGH » Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:31 pm

Sometimes you just want to mow through some squishy, relatively weak foes that don't belong in this world. 8)

If you want threatening monsters, the rhino-buffalo is a solid model. Increase Armor by about 10, add some Toughness (about half the final Armor), then improve damage by one weapon die, give it AP +8, and you should be okay.
M.D.C. Armor and Mega Damage are optional; give it to the things that should be fighting robot and power armors, don't give it to the other stuff. If guys with laser rifles are supposed to be able to kill it then it shouldn't be M.D.C, and the reverse.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

JurneeJakes
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#3 Postby JurneeJakes » Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:52 pm

Well one reason is to make Summon Ally and Shapechange effective without the Young Adult Dragon be the only plausible form.

Reason two is that the RIFTS megaverse is a big place, and Savage RIFTS just doesn't have the content yet to portray that.

So thanks for the mod tips. They'll come in handy.

ValhallaGH
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#4 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:30 am

From the Savage Worlds: Rifts Powers & Mega Powers List:
GREATER SHAPE CHANGE
CREATURE TYPES
Dire wolf, giant spider
Small humanoid (goblin)
Medium Humanoid (brodkil)
Large creature (rhino buffalo)
Huge creature (dragon)
Which gets you rhino buffalo (pretty threatening) and intelligent tool-using D-Bees. Not to mention how powerful giant spider venom is (Vigor -4, take 1 Wound and Fatigue on a SUCCESS).

SUMMON ALLY
CREATURE TYPES
Bodyguard, experienced soldier
Dire wolf, ogre
Elemental (any kind)
Sentinel
Mirror self
Against magical foes, Sentinel is generally the best choice thanks to Arcane Bond (unless you use Mirror Self well). Against mundane foes, elementals are generally the best choice (notably Fire elementals, which are mass murder in a spell; Water are also great for killing).


Both lists have a shortage of M.D.C. / Mega Damage creatures, but that's okay. Not everything needs to be able to kill power and robot armors; generally, you're trying to kill people, and people are a lot softer than tanks.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Freemage
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#5 Postby Freemage » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:04 am

ValhallaGH wrote:From the Savage Worlds: Rifts Powers & Mega Powers List:
GREATER SHAPE CHANGE
CREATURE TYPES
Dire wolf, giant spider
Small humanoid (goblin)
Medium Humanoid (brodkil)
Large creature (rhino buffalo)
Huge creature (dragon)
Which gets you rhino buffalo (pretty threatening) and intelligent tool-using D-Bees. Not to mention how powerful giant spider venom is (Vigor -4, take 1 Wound and Fatigue on a SUCCESS).

SUMMON ALLY
CREATURE TYPES
Bodyguard, experienced soldier
Dire wolf, ogre
Elemental (any kind)
Sentinel
Mirror self
Against magical foes, Sentinel is generally the best choice thanks to Arcane Bond (unless you use Mirror Self well). Against mundane foes, elementals are generally the best choice (notably Fire elementals, which are mass murder in a spell; Water are also great for killing).


Both lists have a shortage of M.D.C. / Mega Damage creatures, but that's okay. Not everything needs to be able to kill power and robot armors; generally, you're trying to kill people, and people are a lot softer than tanks.


And since you can cast twice in a single round, follow up the Summons with a Greater Smite, and you're good against much of the big stuff, too. You can even select the Trapping of Greater Smite on the fly, so you can customize your beastie's attack against the foe they are facing.

JurneeJakes
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#6 Postby JurneeJakes » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:24 am

One of the problems I've run into, when it was declared that each level of Shapechange seems based solely on the size of creatures, rather than any kind of power rating, is that characters are wanting to turn into demons like Thornheads or Neuron Beasts and it seems legit. Is there some kind of restriction I'm missing?

ValhallaGH
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#7 Postby ValhallaGH » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:01 pm

They only get the innate abilities of the creatures they turn into.
Note that only natural, inherent abilities to the form are gained, not anything derived from technology or training. Greater shape change cannot confer a Juicer’s chemical and nanotech enhancements, nor does it give the caster a Ley Line Walker’s spellcasting or ley line abilities.

Basically, if it comes from an Edge, special training (like various ley line abilities), or technological augmentation then the player can't use it.

Turn into a Flame Wind Dragon? You have slow regeneration, limited metamorphosis, none of the dragon's casting abilities, and none of the learned spell-like abilities (Flaming Scales, Teleportation, etc.). Even the breath weapon is iffy (though I'd allow it).
Turn into a Neuron Beast? You're a clawed, flying, tentacle monster with none of the psionic or magical abilities that elevate them from an alien person to a cunning and powerful threat. Depending upon how nice your GM is, you may not even be able to use all four arms without penalties.
Transformed into a Thornhead Demon? You've go scaly skin, tentacles, horns, and are fire proof. But you don't get any of it's powers, magical abilities (including the ones it has learned to cast with just the tentacles), or improved Pace.
Become a Brodkil Leader? Say goodbye to those cybernetics, the carried gear, and the various edges. You might gain the invisibility, depending upon how "natural" and "inherent" the GM rules it to be.
Also of note, all of those have Fear abilities that will automatically affect their allies. And none of them are Fearless. :twisted:
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Ndreare
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#8 Postby Ndreare » Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:10 pm

The rule of thumb I have been using is if the creature is magical in nature then double its Toughness, add a die to damage and make it Mega Damage.
If it is a magic user and has d8 or higher in both Arcane Knowledge and Casting I give it Master of Magic.
If it is not magical in nature then no adapting at all.

Example: Liche
Becomes Toughness 30 (12) and gains Master of Magic.

Example: Fire Elemental
Becomes Toughness 10, Fire Strike does Str+2d6, Flame Strike does 3d10 MD.

Example: Minotaur
Has no changes

Example: Dire Wolf
Has no changes

JurneeJakes
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#9 Postby JurneeJakes » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:51 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:They only get the innate abilities of the creatures they turn into.
Note that only natural, inherent abilities to the form are gained, not anything derived from technology or training. Greater shape change cannot confer a Juicer’s chemical and nanotech enhancements, nor does it give the caster a Ley Line Walker’s spellcasting or ley line abilities.

Basically, if it comes from an Edge, special training (like various ley line abilities), or technological augmentation then the player can't use it.

Turn into a Flame Wind Dragon? You have slow regeneration, limited metamorphosis, none of the dragon's casting abilities, and none of the learned spell-like abilities (Flaming Scales, Teleportation, etc.). Even the breath weapon is iffy (though I'd allow it).
Turn into a Neuron Beast? You're a clawed, flying, tentacle monster with none of the psionic or magical abilities that elevate them from an alien person to a cunning and powerful threat. Depending upon how nice your GM is, you may not even be able to use all four arms without penalties.
Transformed into a Thornhead Demon? You've go scaly skin, tentacles, horns, and are fire proof. But you don't get any of it's powers, magical abilities (including the ones it has learned to cast with just the tentacles), or improved Pace.
Become a Brodkil Leader? Say goodbye to those cybernetics, the carried gear, and the various edges. You might gain the invisibility, depending upon how "natural" and "inherent" the GM rules it to be.
Also of note, all of those have Fear abilities that will automatically affect their allies. And none of them are Fearless. :twisted:


This strikes me as a pain in the rear trying to determine what's inherent and what's learned on the fly as the game screeches to a halt.

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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#10 Postby Freemage » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:21 pm

JurneeJakes wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:They only get the innate abilities of the creatures they turn into.
Note that only natural, inherent abilities to the form are gained, not anything derived from technology or training. Greater shape change cannot confer a Juicer’s chemical and nanotech enhancements, nor does it give the caster a Ley Line Walker’s spellcasting or ley line abilities.

Basically, if it comes from an Edge, special training (like various ley line abilities), or technological augmentation then the player can't use it.

Turn into a Flame Wind Dragon? You have slow regeneration, limited metamorphosis, none of the dragon's casting abilities, and none of the learned spell-like abilities (Flaming Scales, Teleportation, etc.). Even the breath weapon is iffy (though I'd allow it).
Turn into a Neuron Beast? You're a clawed, flying, tentacle monster with none of the psionic or magical abilities that elevate them from an alien person to a cunning and powerful threat. Depending upon how nice your GM is, you may not even be able to use all four arms without penalties.
Transformed into a Thornhead Demon? You've go scaly skin, tentacles, horns, and are fire proof. But you don't get any of it's powers, magical abilities (including the ones it has learned to cast with just the tentacles), or improved Pace.
Become a Brodkil Leader? Say goodbye to those cybernetics, the carried gear, and the various edges. You might gain the invisibility, depending upon how "natural" and "inherent" the GM rules it to be.
Also of note, all of those have Fear abilities that will automatically affect their allies. And none of them are Fearless. :twisted:


This strikes me as a pain in the rear trying to determine what's inherent and what's learned on the fly as the game screeches to a halt.


My advice, if you have Shapechange, is to have a bunch of prepped index cards with the appropriate stat-sets. Keep some of each cost that include key abilities you're likely to want: Climb speed, flight, aquatic travel, etc.

ValhallaGH
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Re: Bestiary Conversions

#11 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:56 am

JurneeJakes wrote:This strikes me as a pain in the rear trying to determine what's inherent and what's learned on the fly as the game screeches to a halt.

So stick to the listed critters. They've got variety, power, and surprising applications with a bit of thought. (Generally, the one that most breaks my adventure plots is shape change into a hawk.)
Or do the work before hand, consulting with the GM / Player, so that one player trying to do cool things doesn't ruin the session for everyone.

There are good reasons that new-to-the-system players should not play mages (except maybe in an Ars Magica campaign). :D Having to learn while playing is the biggest reason, but not the only one.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."


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