[SR] THE Magic Staff

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Corwin
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[SR] THE Magic Staff

#1 Postby Corwin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:44 am

Anyone know if there's been discussion or official word on whether the magic staff from the Enchanted Items table is supposed to benefit from Born a Hero? Or do the spells it contains need to be novice?

Also, in the hands of a LLW, would/should he be able to cast the two spells it contains in mega form?

ValhallaGH
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#2 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:03 am

It's an item, not a character, so it is unaffected by Born A Hero.
Any Master of Magic can use the Mega power version of any power provided by an item.
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Corwin
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#3 Postby Corwin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:11 am

ValhallaGH wrote:It's an item, not a character, so it is unaffected by Born A Hero.

That was my take as well.

ValhallaGH wrote:Any Master of Magic can use the Mega power version of any power provided by an item.

Hmmm. My dwarf PA Jock has AB: Dwarf Magitech (basically core book Weird Science) with a Healing device as his starting gizmo. So the LLW in the party could theoretically trigger the device for the mega version. Something my own character could not do, even though its his invention. Interesting, indeed...

Freemage
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#4 Postby Freemage » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:41 am

ValhallaGH wrote:It's an item, not a character, so it is unaffected by Born A Hero.


It's unaffected by Born a Hero, but it's also not subject (as far as I can see) to the Rank restrictions a character would have. So you can pick any power you want for the Staff, but I'd say that multi-tiered powers are cast at the user's Rank, even if you haven't house-ruled away the broader "Novice Dragon Army" ruling.

Corwin
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#5 Postby Corwin » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:08 pm

Freemage wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:It's an item, not a character, so it is unaffected by Born A Hero.


It's unaffected by Born a Hero, but it's also not subject (as far as I can see) to the Rank restrictions a character would have. So you can pick any power you want for the Staff, but I'd say that multi-tiered powers are cast at the user's Rank, even if you haven't house-ruled away the broader "Novice Dragon Army" ruling.

I see your point. However, the reason I would tend to disagree is that generally speaking I think anything that allows you to ignore rank restrictions says as much in the description. Is this not the case?

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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#6 Postby Freemage » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:57 pm

Corwin wrote:
Freemage wrote:
ValhallaGH wrote:It's an item, not a character, so it is unaffected by Born A Hero.


It's unaffected by Born a Hero, but it's also not subject (as far as I can see) to the Rank restrictions a character would have. So you can pick any power you want for the Staff, but I'd say that multi-tiered powers are cast at the user's Rank, even if you haven't house-ruled away the broader "Novice Dragon Army" ruling.

I see your point. However, the reason I would tend to disagree is that generally speaking I think anything that allows you to ignore rank restrictions says as much in the description. Is this not the case?


The Staff, for all its glory, is a piece of equipment. It can be lost/destroyed/traded away, just like any other gear (and is nigh-impossible to replace). This isn't part of your character, in that sense. Note the 8-10 result on the Magic & Mysticism table; there, it explicitly calls out that going outside your IF's official power-list limits you to Novice powers; this is not explicitly noted with the Staff, which simply states that it, "contains two spells (powers) of the player’s choice, which can come from any list." I see no compelling reason to read more than the plain English reading into that statement.

Corwin
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#7 Postby Corwin » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:50 pm

Just finished our first session. The GM allowed the player of the LLW to put whatever he wanted in the staff. Good thing too, because he's going to need that greater healing spell after the broodkil boss blasted his arm off last night!

Corwin
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#8 Postby Corwin » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:00 pm

Couple new question to float:

1) Who can use the staff? It belongs to the LLW. But can a MM or TW pick it up and use it? What about someone with AG: Weird Science (but is not a TW, so has no PP of their own--yet the staff has its own PPs)?

2) Assuming others can use it, are the two spells' trappings fixed as part of the staff? Or does the user casting the spell through the staff use whatever trapping they establish in using it? I'm guessing the former. In which case, how does someone figure out how to activate it if not instructed on its use by someone who knows?

ValhallaGH
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#9 Postby ValhallaGH » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:19 pm

It's a magic item. Anyone can use it. Supplying enough PPE (or ISP) to use it is a real issue for most characters.

The spells are part of the item. Trappings are fixed upon acquiring the powers (for characters or items).
Identifying the powers of an item sounds like something for the detect arcana power, the Knowledge (Arcana) skill, or maybe a Common Knowledge check for particularly famous items. Ultimately, this is a GM call, and could be as simple as "when you pick up the staff you hear a word whisper in your mind" or "you see stylized letters that spell 'Arise' inlaid on the staff".
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Corwin
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#10 Postby Corwin » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:34 pm

Seems like, to me at least, there are still a lot of open-ended vagueries. I get that the GM can make a lot of calls at the table, but I'm wondering how many of these are answered by different rules in the book (I'm just overlooking), or clarifications made...

So anyone can pick up the staff and cast its contained spells? Even if they don't have an AB trait? Since, presumably, the spell's cost can be paid out of the staff's internal PPE supply?

And is the skill used to activate it fixed for the item just like its trappings? Lets say Spellcasting, assuming it belongs to a LLW? Or can a MM then pick up the LLW's staff, using his Psionics skill to trigger the powers it holds? Or a Mystic using his Mysticism skill? Can a character use Weird Science skill even?

Interestingly, the staff has PPE, specifically. Not ISP. Or even generic PP. Should a psionicist be able to use their ISP to fuel the spell built into the staff?

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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#11 Postby Freemage » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:54 pm

Corwin wrote:Seems like, to me at least, there are still a lot of open-ended vagueries. I get that the GM can make a lot of calls at the table, but I'm wondering how many of these are answered by different rules in the book (I'm just overlooking), or clarifications made...

So anyone can pick up the staff and cast its contained spells? Even if they don't have an AB trait? Since, presumably, the spell's cost can be paid out of the staff's internal PPE supply?

And is the skill used to activate it fixed for the item just like its trappings? Lets say Spellcasting, assuming it belongs to a LLW? Or can a MM then pick up the LLW's staff, using his Psionics skill to trigger the powers it holds? Or a Mystic using his Mysticism skill? Can a character use Weird Science skill even?

Interestingly, the staff has PPE, specifically. Not ISP. Or even generic PP. Should a psionicist be able to use their ISP to fuel the spell built into the staff?


I'd be comfortable limiting it to a Magic/Miracles AB-user, who could wield it with whatever Arcane Skill they have. (So the Mystic and the LLW can both use it, as could a MARS wielder of either type.) After all, those are also the types of AB that get a bonus to their rolls--that seems to suggest it's got a very specific design. The TW is the real edge-case, since they do have PPE, but neither of the bonus-getting ABs.

ValhallaGH
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#12 Postby ValhallaGH » Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:10 pm

Corwin wrote:So anyone can pick up the staff and cast its contained spells? Even if they don't have an AB trait? Since, presumably, the spell's cost can be paid out of the staff's internal PPE supply?

No idea. It's not listed as a TW item (though it could be recreated by that system*) so we don't know if it is subject to the same restrictions (requires AB), more rigorous restrictions (only the owner that rolled on the HJ table), or lighter restrictions (anyone with non-animal intelligence).
You'll have to pick the part that works best for you and your games.

*Spear (Str+d6, Reach 1, +1 Parry, 2-hands); Minor: +1 Faith, +1 Spellcasting; Major: Edge (Power Points) x2, Power (any allowed to an Iconic Framework) x2. Total 6 modifications. Cost ranges from 110,000 to 230,000. As a TW melee weapon, you can "charge it up" with 2 PPE to deal Mega Damage.

Corwin wrote:And is the skill used to activate it fixed for the item just like its trappings? Lets say Spellcasting, assuming it belongs to a LLW? Or can a MM then pick up the LLW's staff, using his Psionics skill to trigger the powers it holds? Or a Mystic using his Mysticism skill? Can a character use Weird Science skill even?

It provides a bonus to both Spellcasting and Faith, regardless of the user. At a minimum, those two skills should be able to activate the powers.
If it was a TW item, the wielder could use their arcane skill to activate it. As is, we don't know.

Corwin wrote:Interestingly, the staff has PPE, specifically. Not ISP. Or even generic PP. Should a psionicist be able to use their ISP to fuel the spell built into the staff?

Since it affects Magic and Miracles, it's of little use to a psionic. Potentially none, depending upon how the GM rules about using the embedded powers.
Last edited by ValhallaGH on Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
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"... We're all gonna die."

Brickulos
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Re: [SR] THE Magic Staff

#13 Postby Brickulos » Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:31 pm

I've just treated it as an oddball TW device really. You need an AB to wield it, and the one who rolls it picks the powers and trappings, which also determines the general shape.


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