[SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

Information and comments on all Pinnacle licensed Savage Settings. Please note the product with an abbreviation in the Subject line (ex. [SR] for Savage Rifts®, [6G] for The Sixth Gun, [SK] for Solomon Kane, and so on). Note: Licensee settings by 3rd parties are below.

Moderators: PEG Jodi, The Moderators

Message
Author
clawingwolf
Novice
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm

[SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#1 Postby clawingwolf » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:28 pm

I'm just looking for people to post their home made Iconic Frameworks. I'm especially looking for a Shifter IF as there was none in the players guide.

Severite
Novice
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:11 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#2 Postby Severite » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:53 pm

clawingwolf wrote:I'm just looking for people to post their home made Iconic Frameworks. I'm especially looking for a Shifter IF as there was none in the players guide.


While I am not really a fan of how they did the shifter, there is a version in the "savaging your favorite Rifts" PDF available for free from the store.

Brickulos
Veteran
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#3 Postby Brickulos » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:12 pm

I can Link a bunch but almost all are new IFs, not converted. Does that matter?

clawingwolf
Novice
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#4 Postby clawingwolf » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:46 am

Severite wrote:While I am not really a fan of how they did the shifter, there is a version in the "savaging your favorite Rifts" PDF available for free from the store.


I did find out about the Shifter that was in the free PDF, and I also am not a fan at all. They made the shifter into a Basic summoner and it was so much more than that. They totally missed the pact with a greater supernatural being which is by far one of the most important aspects of the character. They also really missed the dimensional travel aspect of the character. Only having the ability to sense what kind of dimension is on the other side of a rift is meh. The Shifter in Palladium Rifts can teleport back to their home dimension and in UE edition I believe they can create small 1 way rifts for the group. (Which really allows you do start the game as dimensional travelers.) Hell you can play a shifter and never summon anything and focus on Dimensional travel. That was the interesting thing about them they could be very different dependent on how you wanted to play them.

Brickulos wrote:I can Link a bunch but almost all are new IFs, not converted. Does that matter?

Yea Link any IF you have, I'm curious to see anyone's creation.

ValhallaGH
Legendary
Posts: 8293
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:15 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#5 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:49 am

clawingwolf wrote:They made the shifter into a Basic summoner and it was so much more than that. They totally missed the pact with a greater supernatural being which is by far one of the most important aspects of the character. They also really missed the dimensional travel aspect of the character. Only having the ability to sense what kind of dimension is on the other side of a rift is meh. The Shifter in Palladium Rifts can teleport back to their home dimension and in UE edition I believe they can create small 1 way rifts for the group. (Which really allows you do start the game as dimensional travelers.) Hell you can play a shifter and never summon anything and focus on Dimensional travel. That was the interesting thing about them they could be very different dependent on how you wanted to play them.

Um ... most of that is still there.
Dimension Sense: With a successful Notice roll, a Shifter can determine relevant information about a dimension he is in or one he views through a Rift. This includes hostile environmental conditions, how closely related the dimension is to Rifts Earth, and whether or not it’s a temporal shift.
Rift Mastery: Shifters gain a +4 on all efforts to open and manipulate Rifts (see Characters, Ley Lines, and Rifts in the Savage Rifts® Game Master’s Handbook). They also gain +2 when using the banish Power.
SHIFTER ICONIC EDGES
Ley Line Magic Mastery
Ley Line Phasing
Ley Line Gate

With a few Iconic edges and an emphasis on Rift Mastery, a character can be a fantastic shifter that never bothers to summon anything.
The real weakness is that we have virtually no guidance about controlled use of Rifts to travel to other dimensions. When it comes, it will probably be similar to the rules for controlled use of Rifts to travel across Rifts Earth, and then the Shifter will be a world-hopping badass.

The patronage aspect is basically eliminated, and that was probably a "more fun" choice. Because following the orders of your extra-dimensional, usually evil, boss is not actually fun in most campaigns.

My point isn't that the conversion is perfect. Merely that it's not as bad as you implied.
Last edited by ValhallaGH on Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Freemage
Veteran
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#6 Postby Freemage » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:17 am

Also note: If you want the "Patronage" angle on a Shifter, just have them start with Vow (Major) to represent their pact, work out the details with the GM, and go from there. It's now simply the case that not all Shifters need such an arrangement.

clawingwolf
Novice
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#7 Postby clawingwolf » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:19 pm

ValhallaGH wrote:Um ... most of that is still there.
Dimension Sense: With a successful Notice roll, a Shifter can determine relevant information about a dimension he is in or one he views through a Rift. This includes hostile environmental conditions, how closely related the dimension is to Rifts Earth, and whether or not it’s a temporal shift.
Rift Mastery: Shifters gain a +4 on all efforts to open and manipulate Rifts (see Characters, Ley Lines, and Rifts in the Savage Rifts® Game Master’s Handbook). They also gain +2 when using the banish Power.
SHIFTER ICONIC EDGES
Ley Line Magic Mastery
Ley Line Phasing
Ley Line Gate


In the RIFTS UE, the shifter has dimensional sense, yes but he also has the ability to Dimensionally Travel at will. For 125 PPE (Palladium RIFTS) he can open a small rift for himself and familiar. Adding 25 PPE for each companion. This is can also be done just to RIFT from one stop on RIFTS earth to another, for half the PPE cost.

The RIFT Mastery trait in SR doesn't allow close to this, best is that he can open up a known regularly occurring rift or manipulate a already open one.

The Shifter also has the ability to at will teleport to their home dimension. It means they can always go home at will. This is a core ability that was even in the original rule book is is one of the reasons why they were dimensional travels, because they could never get stuck somewhere they could always explore.

Giving the Shifter the ability to take Ley Line Walker abilities, is not true to the core of the shifter and the difference between the shifter and ley line walker.

ValhallaGH wrote:The patronage aspect is basically eliminated, and that was probably a "more fun" choice. Because following the orders of your extra-dimensional, usually evil, boss is not actually fun in most campaigns.


The link to the supernatural is a core part of the character. But an opitional one, and I don't think it needed to be taken out. As it was always opitional taking it out to be "more fun" is pointless, if you think its no fun don't use it. But with it removed completely it devalues a really cool aspect of the character. The ability to pledge your self to a greater being, for a boon of power is a really great part of the character. Especially in the orginal book to it talked about how this bond allowed the being to enter the world, but also how it didn't have control over the character. Rather it manipulated them at first asking them to do good deeds (that helped the being) and giving good advice till it had the characters trust. It was interesting, and could create an interesting player/GM dynamic along side the main campaign.

Freemage wrote:Also note: If you want the "Patronage" angle on a Shifter, just have them start with Vow (Major) to represent their pact, work out the details with the GM, and go from there. It's now simply the case that not all Shifters need such an arrangement.


I really like this idea though for giving the character the link to the supernatural being. Its a good hindrance that makes sense for the character to have the option of choosing, and the Edge they get in return is the boon, which can be taken away by the being.

Severite
Novice
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:11 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#8 Postby Severite » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:24 pm

clawingwolf wrote:
Severite wrote:While I am not really a fan of how they did the shifter, there is a version in the "savaging your favorite Rifts" PDF available for free from the store.


Kinda going off of what ValhallaGH said:

ValhallaGH wrote:Um ... most of that is still there.
Dimension Sense: With a successful Notice roll, a Shifter can determine relevant information about a dimension he is in or one he views through a Rift. This includes hostile environmental conditions, how closely related the dimension is to Rifts Earth, and whether or not it’s a temporal shift.
Rift Mastery: Shifters gain a +4 on all efforts to open and manipulate Rifts (see Characters, Ley Lines, and Rifts in the Savage Rifts® Game Master’s Handbook). They also gain +2 when using the banish Power.
SHIFTER ICONIC EDGES
Ley Line Magic Mastery
Ley Line Phasing
Ley Line Gate

With a few Iconic edges and an emphasis on Rift Mastery, a character can be a fantastic shifter that never bothers to summon anything.
The real weakness is that we have virtually no guidance about controlled use of Rifts to travel to other dimensions. When it comes, it will probably be similar to the rules for controlled use of Rifts to travel across Rifts Earth, and then the Shifter will be a world-hopping badass.

The patronage aspect is basically eliminated, and that was probably a "more fun" choice. Because following the orders of your extra-dimensional, usually evil, boss is not actually fun in most campaigns.

My point isn't that the conversion is perfect. Merely that it's not as bad as you implied.


A lot depends on how you intend to handle summoning. I will go off the assumption you are going to handle it similarly to how PR (Palladium Rifts) handled it (due to the tone of your post), as opposed to how core SW wants to handle summoning, as in pathfinder, or final fantasy.

I would drop the +2 to banish, as it is wasted bloat, keep dimensional sense, rework Bind the Summoned, to work on one "summon", add an iconic edge for adding another summon, limit the availability of what you summon as a factor of rank, and not use the part of reducing PPE. Next, I modify of SR handles expanded awareness, for the shifter, I would greatly lessen, or drop it. Master summoner would tie into Bind the Summoned and replace it, I would drop PPE manipulation, or rework it so that you can pull PPE from your summon, for free, with no difficulty, upto your spirit, I would keep the +4 to manipulate Rifts, and add a power to open a rift for 10 PPE on a nexus.

Complications would remain the same, with deviations on how you handle aspects like the CS for your campaign. Corruption I would rework entirely, tying it to a new class feature, called Corruptible, where the player makes a negotiation with the GM, and the two of them come to an agreement on what the Shifter gains (increased PPE, a new power, whatever), and tie it to a major Hindrance vow, where if the Shifter breaks the pact, he loses those extra benefits, and loses a die to spell casting, as his patron actively impairs his magic. This class feature is completely optional, the shifter is free to bind himself or not. And, I would give him four powers to start. Oh, and yes, also give him master of magic.

User avatar
pkitty
Seasoned
Posts: 234
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:36 pm
Contact:

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#9 Postby pkitty » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:51 pm

I've created an IF called the "Wild Druid," who is Nature's champion against the encroaching threat of technology:

http://peekitty.livejournal.com/43419.html
Fan of Deadlands, quickly becoming a fan of Savage Rifts.
My Savage Rifts house rules, resources, and sample characters.

ValhallaGH
Legendary
Posts: 8293
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:15 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#10 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:06 pm

clawingwolf wrote:In the RIFTS UE, the shifter has dimensional sense, yes but he also has the ability to Dimensionally Travel at will. For 125 PPE (Palladium RIFTS) he can open a small rift for himself and familiar. Adding 25 PPE for each companion. This is can also be done just to RIFT from one stop on RIFTS earth to another, for half the PPE cost.

The RIFT Mastery trait in SR doesn't allow close to this, best is that he can open up a known regularly occurring rift or manipulate a already open one.

Rift Mastery allows a Shifter to go anywhere in the Megaverse if he's got an appropriate starting point (i.e. a Rift).
It sounds like the Palladium Shifter had the ability to make the Megaverse be his bitch, going wherever and whenever he wants. The only limits I can see (based upon your descriptions) are being somewhere that inhibits PPE or trying to move into / out of a heavy warded location.

clawingwolf wrote:The Shifter also has the ability to at will teleport to their home dimension. It means they can always go home at will. This is a core ability that was even in the original rule book is is one of the reasons why they were dimensional travels, because they could never get stuck somewhere they could always explore.

The ability to run home at any time? Sounds like a great "escape the plot" power.

clawingwolf wrote:Giving the Shifter the ability to take Ley Line Walker abilities, is not true to the core of the shifter and the difference between the shifter and ley line walker.

Only a couple of them. Better ley line drawing (Seasoned, Spellcasting d10), the ability to teleport along a ley line (Veteran), the ability to open gates to move multiple people along a ley line (Heroic, Phasing), the ability to locate ley lines and identify their properties (Seasoned), and the ability to send messages along a ley line (Veteran).
I mentioned Phasing and Gate because they replicate abilities you were complaining about a lack of.

... My point is that the Shifter IF in the conversion guide is a lot more serviceable than you seem to be giving it credit for.
I suspect that a future Savage Rifts product will have a Shifter IF included. Partly because it seems to be frequently requested.


Back to the point of the thread.
A Shifter IF based upon the Savage Foes enemy: http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=451371#p451371
And one for the Necromancer based upon the same source: http://www.pegforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=454494#p454494
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."

Ndreare
Veteran
Posts: 546
Age: 39
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Northwest Washington
Contact:

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#11 Postby Ndreare » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:33 pm

The Frameworks I want most are as follows.

Supers (we have been using 45+SK, plus two rolls on HJ, with the starting gear on any IF minus power/robot armor or the TW.)
Godlings (I like the one based off of dragons, but none of my players have used it.)
Warlocks (I have been using the Mystic IF)
True Atlantean (I have not seen one I felt really worked)


But I want official versions of them. That way they can be accepted at cons, in online play, and by groups that only stick to "RAW".
Last edited by Ndreare on Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Brickulos
Veteran
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#12 Postby Brickulos » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:42 pm

Alternate energy types for Bursters
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3e6c6h4p0z4f0 ... .docx?dl=0

Automaton Jock
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4cuqoodapgsls ... .docx?dl=0

Avatar Style Bender IF
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldd7g05rrpohx ... .docx?dl=0

Doppleganger IF
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zwx1qnj4njodr ... .docx?dl=0

A giant Gargoyle IF modeled after the Dragon IF
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hqsesonztmi2t ... .docx?dl=0

A Plant Elemental IF, like Groot or Swampthing
https://www.dropbox.com/s/eakw57tnbsuvv ... .docx?dl=0

A Summoner IF with a powerful Wildcard familiar
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i8yt9508c4usy ... .docx?dl=0

Several flavors of Werewolf, which could easily be modified for other types of weres
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hs04mbed6y5u5 ... .docx?dl=0

clawingwolf
Novice
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#13 Postby clawingwolf » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:55 pm

Severite wrote: I will go off the assumption you are going to handle it similarly to how PR (Palladium Rifts) handled it (due to the tone of your post)


So as yes I'm coming from a background of a person who's run plenty of Palladium RIFTS games, but not Savage Worlds. But while I love the RIFTS setting, I'm very disenchanted with Palladium RIFTS ruleset. This is why I'm very keen on Savage RIFTS and trying to find Savage RIFTS version of OCC and RCC that I know tend to be popular in games.

ValhallaGH wrote:Rift Mastery allows a Shifter to go anywhere in the Megaverse if he's got an appropriate starting point (i.e. a Rift).
It sounds like the Palladium Shifter had the ability to make the Megaverse be his bitch, going wherever and whenever he wants. The only limits I can see (based upon your descriptions) are being somewhere that inhibits PPE or trying to move into / out of a heavy warded location.


Yes pretty much yea, the shifter is the dimensional travel character, and could be used to facilitate a dimension hoping game, Sliders style, but you could always go home. But yes there is the PPE limit, using the dimensional portal will deplete, and taking the whole group ususally requires another mage or nexus to make up the rest of the PPE needed to take the whole group. But it's a great ability, because in Palladium RIFTS, the oringal Create RIFT spell cost 1000 PPE, which was just crazy, considering most mages had like 100 PPE. So the shifter made dimensional travel much more accessible.

ValhallaGH wrote:The ability to run home at any time? Sounds like a great "escape the plot" power.


Yes and no, The Dimensional Teleport ability Only works on the Shifter and Familiar, so it could never be used to escape the whole group, just the shifter. Also it was still PPE dependent, at around 75 to 100 PPE depending on which book. So it would still very much deplete the Shifter.

ValhallaGH wrote: My point is that the Shifter IF in the conversion guide is a lot more serviceable than you seem to be giving it credit for.
I suspect that a future Savage Rifts product will have a Shifter IF included. Partly because it seems to be frequently requested.


Yes and it is serviceable, I'm just not a fan of it.
I was just wondering if someone had made a Shifter IF, along with any other IF's people have made I'm just curious to see Fan creations of IF and Races that are RIFT specific.

ValhallaGH wrote:Back to the point of the thread.
A Shifter IF based upon the Savage Foes enemy: viewtopic.php?p=451371#p451371
And one for the Necromancer based upon the same source: viewtopic.php?p=454494#p454494
.

Thank you for those, where did you get the power point cost for those two?

Ndreare
Veteran
Posts: 546
Age: 39
Joined: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:33 pm
Location: Northwest Washington
Contact:

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#14 Postby Ndreare » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:03 pm

Brickulos wrote: (snipped)

Wow, that is a lot.
Thanks for sharing, I will have to read the as soon as I get home.

Brickulos
Veteran
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#15 Postby Brickulos » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:31 pm

Ndreare wrote:
Brickulos wrote: (snipped)

Wow, that is a lot.
Thanks for sharing, I will have to read the as soon as I get home.


It's a hobby of it's own at this point.

ValhallaGH
Legendary
Posts: 8293
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:15 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#16 Postby ValhallaGH » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:16 pm

I calculated them, just like I did for the official Iconic Frameworks.
You'll need the Savage Rifts: Savage Foes of North America book to use the two Frameworks, but it sounds like that's not a problem for you.
"Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die."


synarchist
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:53 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#18 Postby synarchist » Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:12 pm

It's so interesting to me how controversial the Shifter is. As a recommendation, for those looking for more "pact with dark powers" stuff, "Codex Infernum: The Savage Guide To Hell" is fantastic. Take the Shifter IF from "Savaging...," then take the CI pacts and modify a few Edges to make them Shifter (or Diabolist) Iconic Edges.

One of the better things about Savage Worlds is that there's probably a product out there that does what you want if you know where to look. :-)

Freemage
Veteran
Posts: 946
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#19 Postby Freemage » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:01 pm

synarchist wrote:It's so interesting to me how controversial the Shifter is. As a recommendation, for those looking for more "pact with dark powers" stuff, "Codex Infernum: The Savage Guide To Hell" is fantastic. Take the Shifter IF from "Savaging...," then take the CI pacts and modify a few Edges to make them Shifter (or Diabolist) Iconic Edges.

One of the better things about Savage Worlds is that there's probably a product out there that does what you want if you know where to look. :-)


<.< >.> Where's the one for Spy/Espionage campaigns? Seriously, I've found one for conspiracy-themed games specifically, but for something like Savage MI-5, there's not a lot out there....

synarchist
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:53 pm

Re: [SR] Looking for Homemade Iconic Frameworks

#20 Postby synarchist » Wed Apr 26, 2017 6:26 pm

"Agents of Oblivion" should work nicely for spy stuff - is that the setting you're referencing? Just replace the homebrew agencies with real ones and remove the supernatural elements. Mechanically, it should have all the extra "espionage" stuff you'd want - I do own it, but haven't read it in a while. And just to keep things on topic, you could probably pilfer a lot for a game focused on Coalition spies too.


Return to “SW Pinnacle Licensed Settings”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest